Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Now Shag, look at this....


8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



When Jesus returns to Millennial Israel, then the perfect One(Jesus) will cause the(partial) Gifts of the Spirit to cease!

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Sorry bro., you must think that the church REPLACES Israel in these hundreds of passages, regarding future Millennial Israel.

Lets' face it...You preterists and most of the others, teach replacement theology. I have minister friends that unwittingly teach replacement theology that are amazed when I show them they are teaching it.

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Yes, the believer in Jesus Christ is NOT condemned indeed, yet the SINNER is indeed judged by the Law....


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth(continues to commit) sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


This passage was written decades after the cross, and in the PRESENT TENSE.

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Sean, I have heard this preached for years, erroneously of course.

Define "That".

You define "that" as Jesus. Jesus is not a "That" He is a "Who".

The problem with your thinking is that you are parroting the line of the dipees who have went before you.

You have a definition problem with this verse.

Study out "That" and get back to us.

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Again Sean, you are parroting the speech of the dispees who have went before you.

Erroneously of course.

We don't teach replacement theology, we teach fulfillment theology.

Big difference.

Study it out and get back to us if you are serious.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

ha, good point.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

"That" is Jesus and His subsequent Millennial kingdom.....


Look at chapter 1 of the same book....

1 Corinthians 1King James Version (KJV)

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Sean you don't know what the term replacement theology is. The church is the Israel of God. Just as Jesus told the religious leaders of his day.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If Christ did not consider those that rejected him in his day, how then do you say that the nation of Israel today are God's children, by nationality.

Even Paul taught that nationality no longer determined a child of God.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Jesus said in Mark 16, he that believes shall be saved but he that believes not shall be damned. Do you not get that? All those that don't believe are no longer children of Abraham, regardless of nationality by birth.
That means All Israel that are saved are those that believe the good news, not those that call themselves Jews.
[/B]

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Nope. Wrong again Sean.

Study out "that" that is going to be matured. Perfect means mature. It is not Jesus and His millenial kingdom. Jesus is already perfect,.

Study Sean, Study.

Keep trying, you'll come to it.

:thumbsup

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Monterrey, are you telling us that tongues will cease when we spiritually mature?

Do you really want me to study that kind of teaching?

I guess I better find some Church of Christ folks to teach me this doctrine, huh?

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Amen. Fulfillment theology, not replacement theology.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

The Church did not replace Israel, Israel was but a shadow of the Church. The Church was the fulfillment of what Israel was to teach.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Physical Israel was the shadow of the Body, the Church.

Again, not replacement but fulfillment.

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If you are going to quite scripture Sean don't add words that are not in the text. It does not say "perfect one", neither does the text say that the gifts of the spirit will be caused to cease. It simply says that which in part shall be done away with.

Again you are grasping at straws, and adding to the text what is not there, nowhere does Paul allude to a millennial kingdom nor to the end of the world.

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I just want you to study something other than Clarence Larkin or Schofield or Darby or Dugas. There is Truth but you need to search for it.

Lets take this slow. Remember, context, context, context.

What is the idea behind I Cor 13?

The whole Chapter?

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Amen.

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:thumbsup

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Some people have been so spoiled by tradition, vain deceit, and the philosophy of man, they cannot read scripture without applying their mind set to the passage. They don't read, they interpret based on preconceived traditions and teaching.

STOP ALREADY!!!

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The only thing Paul is stating here is that we cannot depend of prophecies, because they will fail, in certain circles people will stop speaking in tongues, even knowledge will cease, because people will be so stepped tradition that their brains will not work, knowledge will pass away. But the one thing that will never fail, is Charity.

And that the most important thing we need to learn is Charity, Charity over prophecy, Charity over tongues, Charity over knowledge. That which is perfect is Charity, and when we learn to love as Christ loved us, those other things will no longer be needful.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

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Now there you go again, reading something in context. Thou heretic you!!!:smack

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Doubter doubter two by four, couldn't get through the dispee door!



LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

:lol nice Gd

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Okay guys, class is in session....


Subject...the Gifts of the Spirit and the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ...

1 Cor 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Subject....The Gifts of the Spirit and the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ....

13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known



Thanks for your attention class, you are dismissed.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

:lol humility, personified

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Who?

Little ol me?

LOL

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Sean don't you remember that you flunked this class in the eschatology section of this forum? 1st Corinthians 13 isn't talking about eschatology, but something you lack greatly which is the Love of God working through you to bring you to maturity. You are just a hate filled religious sop, who can't stand being wrong. Therefore instead of being a defender of the faith, you are just a defender of Sean. :heeheehee

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

See. :)

Sean always focused on Sean. :lol

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

That is the dumbest thing you have ever brought to the open Benincasa.

Even David Bernard teaches the verse is about the 2nd coming.

You think that mature Christians gravitate from the Gifts, according to the context of the passage......


LOLOLOL


This is your idiotic doctrine....


8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect(maturity in Christ) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


The only reason you would come to the conclusion that this is the way you believe is the belief you have in preterism.

It shakes your doctrine, when you think of the ending of the gifts, when and only when Jesus returns!

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2 Peter 3:2-14

2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

How does this have anything to do with the 70ad destruction of Israel?

If the example was told by the Prophets and then The Apostle(s),(Verse 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:)

that the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished, and the second Fire. In the first all living things were destroyed and in the future all things including the very elements will be burned up

How then does someone go from a literal flood to a spiritual fire?

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How then does someone go from a literal flood to a spiritual fire?



Metaphors my friend, metaphors......LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

10/7/2015
2 Peter 3:10
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Many take this passage and try to imply that the earth, this planet, and all that goes with it will be destroyed. That it will be dissolved by fire. And then God will create a new planet that is perfect, without sin. There are several things wrong with this thinking, and I wonder how they reconcile several things written in this passage. But I will only deal with this one verse, for in this verse there are still several issues that seem to be over looked.
First the issue of the day of the Lord. What is the day of the Lord? I have in my life heard several teachings on the meaning of the day of the Lord. The first one is the teaching that the day of the Lord is the rapture. A term I might add that is not found in scripture, nor with careful study is only found in the imagination of the minds that teach this.
But let us not just leave this idea with regards to my way of thinking. According to these teachers Christ is going to return to earth, and resurrect all the dead in Christ and rapture all those that are living and take them to a place they perceive as heaven. Now here is the problem with this thinking. In regards to the rapture, they take the part of this passage in verse 10, “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night” and apply it to the rapture. There is a big problem with this for the day of the Lord is a coming in judgment. They try to get around this by splitting the coming of the Lord into at least two comings, with a period of tribulation in between. Of course this poses another problem, they cannot agree if the supposed rapture happens before this tribulation, in the middle or at the end. Yet the biggest problem with all of this is that they teach that at the end of this tribulation, Christ returns and set up a 1000 year reign on the earth, and still the earth is not destroyed until after the 1000 years.
All of this in the face of Peter writing that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, and the heavens and earth pass away with a fervent heat. How can all this happen in the short period of time implied by Peter in this passage? It cannot.
Instead of defending a theology that has so many holes in it, why not go back to scripture and rethink your theology?

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EB, don't use big words on Sean he does not understand them.

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And Sean before you use big words you don't understand get out your dictionary.

Metaphor
MET'APHOR, n. [Gr. to transfer, over, to carry.] A short similitude; a similitude reduced to a single word; or a word expressing similitude without the signs of comparison. Thus "that man is a fox," is a metaphor; but "that man is like a fox," is a similitude or comparison. So when I say, "the soldiers fought like lions," I use a similitude. In metaphor, the similitude is contained in the name; a man is a fox, means, a man is as crafty as a fox. So we say, a man bridles his anger, that is, restrains it as a bridle restrains a horse. Beauty awakens love or tender passions; opposition fires courage.

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I wasn't poking holes like you were doing. I was just sincerely asking how do you explain it?

You're not explaining your stand by mocking someone else's. You're just making haphazard statements.

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Man, I go out to do a little work and look what I have missed!

Sean moving to the head of the class and teaching now!

LOL

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Sorry if you think all I was doing was poking holes, sometimes poking holes is the first step before explaining things.

I have not had as much interaction with you as with Sean so not too sure where you are coming from yet.
Here is part of the thing for me, I have taught and explained things is the past but if the person being taught is set in their mind they will like Sean not even consider or study that which disagrees with their theology.

The other thing is most people get their beliefs by indoctrination, rather that personal study. They were taught their beliefs over and over then began to teach those beliefs the same way to others. If one does not have reason to question those doctrines, they will continue to believe and teach them as God inspired. Thirty five years ago while I was pasturing a church, someone questioned two standards of holiness, that caused me to take another look. Although I thought I had studied them many times before, this time I looked at many outside resources outside the church. Also I began to study history and the context before and after the passages used to teach those standards. For me I could not reconcile the teachings taught by my organization. I also found that there were others in my organization that also agreed with the same understanding I was coming to.

The point to this is I now try to stay away from trying to persuade others to my way of thinking by giving my understanding. Because in doing so, all I am doing is indoctrinating others to my way of thinking rather they them finding it on their own. Therefore I will poke holes in doctrines, in the hope that it will cause others to question what they have been taught, and dig deeper in study.

I believe truth is truth and when someone studies to find truth with an open heart, truth will prevail. Paul told Timothy to study to show himself approved, he did not say go to the elders of the church to get your doctrine. The bible has always been and always will be my go to book for answers to life's problems, and it also holds the answers to the questions to prophecy, but one must study.

My last thought is don't look to other to teach you truth, study for yourself to find truth, truth will prevail. If there is one question, one contradiction in your mind then it cannot be truth.

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Brother Bernard also teaches TITHING!

So stop robbing God and listen to Brother Bernard. :lol

Sean, you are confused, maybe if you read the scripture slower, you may find out what Paul was teaching. You sound like a mixture of Church of Christ and Southern Baptist. When was the last time you spoke in tongues? ;)

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Maybe you are ready to answer Brother Blume's post?

What world perished in Noah's flood? :heeheehee

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Yes exactly Bro. Perez.


These preterists are extremely embarrassed to come out and teach what they believe. It is only for those that embrace metaphors as a standard for reading the Bible.


Not a one of them will ever post what 1 Peter 3 is really talking about. They know I will hang them high and not EVER let them off the hook when they post it.

Therefore, they will only teach what they think it is metaphorically saying in secret preterist rooms that have no windows or listening devices....LOL

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Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Loren, this is what you guys have done to the Bible......




met·a·phor
ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/
noun
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"“I had fallen through a trapdoor of depression,” said Mark, who was fond of theatrical metaphors"
synonyms: figure of speech, image, trope, analogy, comparison, symbol, word painting/picture
"the profusion of metaphors in her everyday speech has gotten pretty tiresome"
a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.




Good job, preterists.....Way to louse up a perfectly good Bible.....LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean you are so off the wall and blind you don't know what you believe! You are reading a book written 2000 years ago, written in a different culture, with different understanding and ways to even talking. You think you can just read those words in English and understand what is being said?

After reading most of your responses to those of us that ask you questions or even answer your questions, I realize you don't comprehend most of what you read. No wonder you post some off the wall responses that have little or nothing to do with the post directed to you.

I don't believe you, you say you study the bible but the only thing I hear from you are direct quotes from Search for truth bible study. You think Mike Blume, or EB are ashamed to answer your questions? You are so far from the truth in making those accusations you should be ashamed. They are answering you with the questions they ask you, but you are too dense to understand that. Because you have not taken the time to honestly see what they are asking you.