Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 690835)

Lying? Uhm, no; fulfilling, YES!!

Did Jesus sin? Was He lying by saying He needed baptized of John?

Mat 3:14-15
(14) But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(15) And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

I think it is clear that Jesus was baptized because it was what He was to do. Therefore, it wasn't that Jesus felt the need, but that the Bible foretold He would be baptized, hence He was.

Simple? :thumbsup

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 690838)

I agree. But you did not answer me. Did Jesus feel forsaken or not? Did He actually thirst or not? Did the bible foretell He would make these statements because He actually was expressing what He described he was experiencing when He fulfilled them? Or did he merely say it without any feeling about it, just for the sake of fulfilling scripture?

If he did NOT feel the things He said and merely said them to fulfill scripture, then his words were lies, brother. They were not true of Himself. Jesus is not a liar. Nor is He another person apart from God Almighty.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 690838)

I agree. But you did not answer me. Did Jesus feel forsaken or not? Did He actually thirst or not? Did the bible foretell He would make these statements because He actually was expressing what He described he was experiencing when He fulfilled them? Or did he merely say it without any feeling about it, just for the sake of fulfilling scripture?

Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 690835)

I think it is clear that Jesus was baptized because it was what He was to do. Therefore, it wasn't that Jesus felt the need, but that the Bible foretold He would be baptized, hence He was.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 690838)

If he did NOT feel the things He said and merely said them to fulfill scripture, then his words were lies, brother. They were not true of Himself. Jesus is not a liar. Nor is He another person apart from God Almighty.

Originally Posted by DK Bernard

The cry of Jesus on the cross does not mean that the Spirit of God had departed from the body, but that there was no help from the Spirit in His sacrificial death of substitution for sinful mankind. It was not one person of the Godhead being deserted by another, but the human nature feeling the wrath and judgment of God upon the sins of mankind.

Originally Posted by Dk Bernard

...

The divine Spirit could not be separated from the human nature and life continue. But in His agonizing process of dying, Jesus suffered the pains of our sins. Dying became death when He yielded His Spirit.

...

In other words, what Jesus meant when He cried, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" was that he had taken the place of sinful man on the cross and was suffering the full punishment for sin. There was no abatement of suffering because of His deity. Since all have sinned (Romans 3:23) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), all mankind (except for the sinless Christ) deserved to die. Christ took our place and suffered the death that we deserved (Romans 5:6-9). Jesus was more than a courageous martyr like Stephen and more than an Old Testament sacrifice, because He died in our place and experienced for a time the death we deserved. On the cross, He tasted death for every man (Hebrews 2:9). This death was more than physical death; it also involved spiritual death, which is separation from God (II Thessalonians 1:9; Revelation 20:14).

No one alive on earth has felt this spiritual death in its fullest degree, because all of us live, move, and have our being in God (Acts 17:28). Even the atheist enjoys many good things such as joy, love, and life itself. Every good thing comes from God (James 1:17), and all life originates from Him and is upheld by Him. But, Jesus tasted ultimate death - the separation from God that a sinner will feel in the lake of fire. He felt the anguish, hopelessness, and despair as if he were a man eternally forsaken by God. So the human nature of Jesus cried out on the cross as Jesus took on the sin of the whole world and felt the eternal punishment of separation for that sin (I Peter 2:24).

We must not assume that the Spirit of God departed from the body of Jesus the moment He uttered the words, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" The divine Spirit left the human body only at death. Hebrews 9:14 says that Christ offered Himself to God through the eternal Spirit. Moreover, Jesus told His disciples with respect to His death,

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that he shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me" (John 16:32). Thus, the eternal Spirit of God, the Father, did not leave the human body of Christ until Christ's death

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 690707)

I think what Bro. Blume is saying is:

Jesus was human in body, soul, and spirit.
He was also God. The only God there is lived in Jesus.
He had two natures, human and Deity.

Spritual death is separation from God.
God remained in Jesus as He hung on the cross. Deity did not withdraw from Him on the cross.
But (as man) He felt totally alone and completely abandoned by God.

I think that's what Bro. Blume is saying.
I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 690847)

I agree with Bernard about this. But I guess you think that means we're not oneness. Ok. Whatever you say. :) Like I'm really going to take your words over Bernard's,... no offense intended.

Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 690842)

Yes I did answer you. This is what I said.





So then you believe Jesus DID need baptized? Really?

Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 690881)

Hey, no offense taken at all!

I mean no disrespect toward Bro. Bernard, but since you brought him up…in their Godhead debate, didn't Bernard tell the Trinitarian preacher, Gene Cook, Jr., that they both believed in the SAME God? :uhoh