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-   Political Talk (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55)
-   -   Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=15394)

Ferd 06-04-2008 01:40 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 483710)
And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?
Ron where are you getting your news? Bushisevil.com?

Dude, there is a massive push for Iraqi Sovreignty. Case in point. WE have not stolen their oil....

tstew 06-04-2008 01:41 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 483700)
you dun drunk the democrat coolaid.

No one has EVER Suggested that we have "won"

and Iraq is not a civil war. and the lesson we learned in Vietnam is that when liberals cry we end up loosing.

we lost vietnam because of cowards like ted kennedy and others who WANTED to loose.

NOT because it was a so called civil war.

the situation in Iraq is very much winnable. the majority of Iraqis want us there and want a free society and know they can get it with out help.

but we have too many liberals who smell power and have decided they can get power by loosing.
Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
As someone who was raised around civil war that involved tribalism and religion, let me tell you that the Shiite and Sunni situation in that country and region will not be solved by what we are doing, and it has been worse because of what we have done.

DividedThigh 06-04-2008 01:41 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 483710)
And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?
of course, dt

Ron 06-04-2008 01:41 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 483706)
yea. according to mr obama we need to sit down and talk to them.

that way we can build trust and openness and come to a better understanding.

puke.
I didn't not say that Ferd.
Just as it is hard for me to grasp an American mindset, it is also hard for most Americans to grasp how the rest of the world views how American intervention
is perceived.

That is all I an trying to put forward.

DividedThigh 06-04-2008 01:43 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
tstew i love you man, but i dont agree that it is worse there than before, and like i said if the people over there want peace they will have it, we have done that here a couple times, dt

Ron 06-04-2008 01:46 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 483713)
Ron where are you getting your news? Bushisevil.com?

Dude, there is a massive push for Iraqi Sovreignty. Case in point. WE have not stolen their oil....

There is a web site called that?

Pretty perceptive person.:D

Ferd 06-04-2008 01:49 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483716)
Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
As someone who was raised around civil war that involved tribalism and religion, let me tell you that the Shiite and Sunni situation in that country and region will not be solved by what we are doing, and it has been worse because of what we have done.
my friend, "MIssion Accomplised" was the correct asessment of what those particular sailors did who were returning after that phase was over.

GWB on the deck of that Carrier STATED that the WAR was NOT over and we had a long road ahead.

this thing that you are repeating is quite a diservice to the men and women who fought so valiantly during those early days in Iraq.

tstew 06-04-2008 01:49 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 483722)
tstew i love you man, but i dont agree that it is worse there than before, and like i said if the people over there want peace they will have it, we have done that here a couple times, dt
Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

Aquila 06-04-2008 01:51 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 483273)
Don't forget folks, if you don't vote for Obama that means you are racist. (we now have the ultimate race card being played)
I don't think anyone is a racist if they don't vote for Obama. I will concede, I think that a lot of people who won't vote for him are going to do so because they are racists. This will make those who vote against Obama based on the issues have to defend themselves from being labeled racists.

Ron 06-04-2008 01:52 PM
Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483736)
Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.
Very Perceptive & very true!
Good post!


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