Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

The only controversy that I've seen talked about in his view is that he said Jesus died spiritually. I did not mention the physical because I believed everyone is in agreement with that on this thread. My not mentioning the physical was only because I was focusing only on what had been the topic.

No, I do not think so, but you know what they say, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. :thumbsup

Be blessed, Prax!

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

I didn't say you DIDN'T Mention the physical.

You said he said he only died spiritually
That is what you said. You DID say he has Jesus only dying spiritually on the cross. Im saying, no he also has Jesus dying physically


Some people don't have noses...seriously...your smiley face for example just as two eyes, mouth and one hand :ursofunny

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

Bloodhounds on this thread. LOL!

When Jesus took on our sins, he felt what we should have felt...

Thank you Jesus.

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

He felt the pain and agony of crucifixion as He physically died, yes. However, do you believe He also died spiritually?

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

Thank-you, Praxeas. You related exactly what I meant. EXCEPT is the intention of ONLY. Not MERELY.

All in all, folks see the worst when they want to see the worst in anyone's words. Love hopes no evil, though. It thinks the best. However, you cannot explain your true intentions and see such folks accept them. They see what they want and believe what they want.

To say that trinitarians have another "God" than we do, is to say the Holy Ghost they claim to have is also not the same Holy Ghost we have. And to be consistent, one has to also say that any book written by a trinitarian is about a god other than our own God and I am sure Bro Burk and others have Christian books by Trinitarians. That means those books written by trinitarians will mention a different god in every reference to "God" in them, or "Jesus" in them, to be consistent with Bro Burk's views. So, according to him, these brethren will be reading about a false god when they read their books by trinitarian authors, whether the book are full preterist or whatever. The full preterist trinitarian author who writes a book will be writing about a false god coming in judgment in AD70 to Jerusalem.

I believe there are trinitarians who have the same Holy Ghost I do and are genuinely Spirit filled, but they mistaken Him as a third person of a non-existent trinity.

Anyway, I mean they believe the same God of the Bible we believe in and they seek to serve Him as best they know how, and I believe God even uses them. Not another god. EXCEPT (to rephrase my sentence to show Bro Burk his mistaken notion about my intentions) they believe He is mistaken as three persons in their thinking.

(PS: The SHOE FITTING was a dig attacking things and events he knows are associated with my ministry. It was uncalled for, but typical.)

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

Amen. Feeling what we should feel is suffering and is expressed by His Words "My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" He was not merely quoting words that did not express his feeling. He FELT what He said. His humanity felt that and cried to His deity, just as when Christ prayed to the Father.

Jesus was not lying when He humanly expressed suffering the forsakenness of Deity.

Why even prophesy he would say this? Just to have Him recall scripture and quote it to say He fulfilled prophecy? That is ridiculous. He was prophesied to suffer and actually feel forsakenness from deity, and to in turn express that in a cry. That is what was prophesied.

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

Can anyone say "hyperbole"?? :rolleyes2

Okay, let’s say this is said: “He believes Jesus died on the cross, ONLY he thinks Jesus died SPIRITUALLY.” The “only” in this case does not simply mean “except,” for it is used to underscore the major difference found between the two lines of thought. Does this “only” mean that the two views do not agree on every premise of Jesus dying on the cross? Of course not. Does it mean that they disagree on Him dying physically? Again, no, that is not what the “only” emphasizes. The only thing that is underscored is the fact that one believes Jesus died SPIRITUALLY and the other does not. Does this mean they disagree on any other point? We do not know. Does it mean they agree on any other point? Again, we do not know. The only thing we know is that one believes Jesus died SPIRITUALLY and the other does not. Though both views agreeably do find similarities on facts relating to the crucifixion, they still differ on Jesus dying SPIRITUALLY. This difference thus causes their harmony to change to discord. To make light of such a major dissimilarity does not do that which either side holds as biblical Truth justice. Both opinions cannot be correct, so how can they both act as if they do not notice their difference? Since neither opinion is based on the same hermeneutic nor arrives at the same prophetic outcome, only those who do not feel such differences matter could continue focusing on similarities. This does not mean one side should have a PERSONAL problem with those with whom they disagree; what it does mean is that their disagreement on the crucifixion is too huge a disparity for either side to claim they agree on the manner in which Jesus died on the cross. Again, this is not a personal disagreement, but it does affect the manner in which both sides should relate doctrinally.

Adherents to Orthodox Trinitarianism would not agree with Bro. Bernard’s assertion that the Trinitarian God is the same God as found in One God doctrine. All one has to do is read the history of how Trinitarians and One God believers related one to the other through the centuries to know this is true! The Trinitarian preacher debating Bernard even said as much when he answered Bernard that they in fact did NOT believe in the same God. This dissimilarity was the basis for my statement about their differences in belief on God.

Trinitarians believing in three persons and Apostolics believing in One God is more than just an “except” difference. One God believers should see these differences as they are: two seperate teachings on the nature of the godhead. Such variance should therefore disqualify Trinitarians from preaching their view of God in Apostolic One God pulpits. It should also prohibit Apostolics that believe in One God from promoting Trinitarians as being Apostles of Jesus Christ. This is not a dig, it is a reality derived from comparing Trinitarian teachings on the godhead with those found in the Bible and in the Apostolic faith.

Like I said, only you can know how tightly the shoe fits. So if what I said is related to your ministry, as you claim, then that is between you and Jesus Christ. Again, differences should never be personal, but should focus only on doctrinal issues.

Be blessed….

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

It is, nevertheless, an "except" difference. Sorry. They read the Word about God and Jesus and all the same verses we read, EXCEPT they read about God and Christ through a perceptual grid and redefine His nature. It is the same God but misunderstood. It's like looking at oneself and refusing to see dishonesty and claiming it is objectivity. Which leads to the following.

Avoidance of explanations and intentions was already predicted. Some people will not even accept an explanation of one's intentions. Wanting to believe a person meant something despite their explanation to the contrary is wanting to be right no matter what. Talk about hyperbole! This just made it worse.

Be careful, lest we call a work of the Holy Ghost in those Trinitarians, who claim Spirit filling, to be a work of the devil, and not the same Holy Ghost we have. But if that is what you adhere to and stand by, THAT is between you and God.

God's Spirit is not come because we have all the truth, but to lead us into all the truth. Jesus said there are harsh repercussions in calling that which is of the Spirit of God to instead be of the devil, while this devil is only real false "god" that exists. Just leave it alone. Whether one wants to be right in every argument or not, some things we leave alone. Does this condone trinity teaching? Of course not. Neither does it propose the Holy Ghost caused them to concoct trinity teaching.

Please. It only worsens with this. When a shoe is designed for a specific person to wear, one does not say, "If the shoe fits, wear it."

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

The entire key to analyzing this issue is determining how much the humanity in which God manifested was human. Any humanity about Christ would obviously cry in feeling the weight of our sins. His deity did not take upon Himself our sins, but His humanity did. If God took sin upon His deity, He could not be a Holy God.

Jesus Christ as man suffered in the Garden as well, in asking the Father to provide another way aside from the cross if possible. His humanity felt the pain. But being fully subjugated to the Father, this humanity forfeited His will for God's will. He was not putting anything on when He <"Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done." And that is the same for the cry on the cross.

Re: Jesus forsaken?
 

We had a man who was coming to church here in Fort Lauderdale. This man claimed to be a millionaire. He wasn't a millionare.

We had another individual who thought she was the second witness in Revelation 11. She wasn't.

People claim lots of different experiences, William Branham's parents claimed that a shaft of light rested upon their sons bed when he was an infant. William Branham claimed that shaft of light was the angel of the Lord.

It wasn't.

A man by the name of Joseph Smith claimed to have the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith claimed that the Holy Ghost directed him into a revelation that a man MUST have plural wives to enter into glorification.

A man by the name of Jim Jones claimed to have the Holy Ghost and said he was a prophet of God. He left 913 dead bodies in his wake.

It's chapter and verse Brother Blume, not our feelings on how we claim old uncle Pen, was a praying man and spoke in tongues, yet was never baptized in Jesus name. Therefore we feel, and then claim he was saved.

People claim a lot, but we prove it all with the Book.

People who tend to allow their feelings to muddy the waters of their mind, end up going down roads they can never get back from.


That's why your fellowship should be based on chapter and verse. Not on philosophy and feelings. :thumbsup


Yes lead us into all truth, not have us wallow in darkness.


Jesus also warned against blind leaders of the blind.


The Apostle Paul was harsh about those who wanted for filthy lucre sake, would compromise and preach another Jesus, and another spirit.


Yes they leave it alone to the extent of thinking the Trinitarians are going to get Truth through some sort of hockus pocus osmosis. ;)


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com