Apostolic Friends Forum - No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 734620)

Bro. Hoover,

We can't have good dialogue unless we "sound" a little critical at times!:thumbsup

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (Amplified Bible)

24 After that comes the end (the completion), when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every [other] rule and every authority and power.
25 For [Christ] must be King and reign until He has put all [His] enemies under His feet.(A)

26 The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death.

27 For He [the Father] has put all things in subjection under His [Christ's] feet. But when it says, All things are put in subjection [under Him], it is evident that He [Himself] is excepted Who does the subjecting of all things to Him.(B)

28 However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life].

Blessings,

Falla39

Very well. It is fair to say His mission is accomplished - it is finished.

However, the Son is not a role nor a mission. He, as the incarnate one, is God's crowning achievement and supreme revelation of Himself. The glorified Son of God will forever be the object of our worship. He is now (in existence) what we soon will be.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 733757)

Thanks, Sis. Febus

Let me know about your husband's book. What is it about?

His first book is really just a booklet; it is a in-depth version of his article: The Elements Destroyed, Heaven and Earth Passing.
He uses 2 Peter 3:10-13 as well as much other scripture. The booklet is much better written than the article and contains much more evidence to prove his point. He will continue to write several booklets dealing with fulfilled prophecy, they will be published and taken to the fellowship meetings and conferences we go to; then he will have all the booklets combined that he might have one bigger book published.

If in the mean-while, you would like a good book on the subject of fulfilled prophecy, I recommend: BEYOND CREATION SCIENCE.....NEW COVENANT CREATION FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION By: Timothy P. Martin & Jeffrey L.Vaughan, PhD.
This is really a great book; these men have crossed their T's and dotted their I's.

God Bless You Sister,

Sister Helen Febus

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 734610)

Bro. tbpew,

Evidently God (Spirit/Deity) returned to the role He had previously held before He came to earth in the role of the Son. The purpose for His Sonship
was completed.
Psalms 110:1, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Heb.1:1,2, NIV
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

I was born a daughter to my parents. I became a wife, a mother and now
have become a grandmother 20 times. Yet I am but one person. I have a
husband, sons, daughters. But I am one person. I have not always been a
wife, a mother, but have now fulfilled these roles. Those who I was a dau-
ghter to, are gone. My role as granddaughter to my grandparents are gone.
These are past roles. I remain.

God had a Son and indwelt in that Son. God was in Christ. For a purpose,
to fulfill a role as Mediator between God and men. To reconcile the world unto Himself. GOD(Spirit) commanded the Light to shine out of darkness
to give light of the glory of God (Spirit). How did God (Spirit) do this?) God
(Spirit) shined out in/through the FACE of JESUS CHRIST. Father and Son,
Spirit and Body were so fused together as ONE. Jesus prayed for His disciples
that they might be one as Son and Father were.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis Falla,
I certainly am not one to silence any discussion about a Father and Son.
But a father and son is not what results from a fusion of God's spirit fusing with a body....sorry, the outcome of such an act will not reveal a Father and a Son.....it just doesn't.

Psalms 110:1 is a wonderful and thought-provoking scripture for any honest-hearted oneness teacher. I have written several times on the witness that Jesus challenged the scribes to answer: Concerning the Christ, whose Son is he? When they said "the Son of David", the Son of God refutted that understanding by identifying that David (speaking in the Spirit) called Messiah HIS Lord (Adoni). But his Lord was instructed by the LORD to sit here until I MAKE THY enemies THY footstool. You have to agree, that would be an extremely bizarre conversation for David to receive as a vision if it was to be interpreted as being between two manifestations.

Sis, fold up the pattern if you choose, but as for me, I will continue to look to the only begotten Son of God as the head of the church that God indwells, rendering apparent the invisible God.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by helen_febus (Post 734692)

This is really a great book; these men have crossed their T's and dotted their I's.

God Bless You Sister,

Sister Helen Febus

Except for one paragraph where they felt like they needed to mention something about the trinity... hehehe... out of no where they make a short stab at tradition.... I guess we all have baggage that we have trouble getting free from. :)

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbpew (Post 734558)

But you do not do that with your beloved Son...particularly one which on two occassions you spoke from the clouds declaring "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". (referencing the enlarged highlight I inserted in the quote above)

See sis, this is why I submit that most teachers of the oneness view point do not really believe God has a son.

The Father was pleased in dwell in the Son because that is the means
God (Spirit) (in Christ) manifested Himself. As Son (humanity) he grew
tired and sleepy in the boat, as GOD He arose and rebuked the winds
and spoke "Peace be still"! The elements had heard that Voice before as
it spake at Creation, "Let there be light, and there was light". God was
IN Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself. GOD was IN Christ without
measure.
All the fulness of God dwelled in the Body of Jesus Christ. All power in
heaven and earth was given to Him.

God didn't use His little boy, Jesus, as a Lamb for a sacrifice. He prepared
Himself a Lamb for a offering for sin. He didn't leave the Son (humanity) in
the grave to see corruption. And IF the same Spirit that raised Christ from
the dead, dwell in you, it shall also quicken your mortal bodies. There is ONE
GOD. GOD is a Spirit. The Holy Spirit/Ghost. It raised Lazarus from the dead.
It indwelt Jesus and raised Him from the dead. The Father (Spirit) raised the
Son (humanity) from the dead.

Falla39

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

This has really turned out to be a good thread. Thanks everyone for sharing.....

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

God just "in" the Son. God IS the Son

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 735026)

God just "in" the Son. God IS the Son

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Cor. 5:19:

You mean like "WAS" in Christ? Past tense!
You mean like God is WHO he is! Jesus is His name?

God is also the Father in Heaven and the Holy Ghost
poured out from on high. For we have this treasure
in earthen vessels that the praise might be OF God
and not of us.

Pray you are feeling better!

Falla39

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 735037)

Are you trying to say God no longer is in Christ and yes God is WHO and What the Son is. A WHO was incarnate. And since that WHO has a WHAT (Divine nature), His What came along for the ride so that in the Son God was incarnate (becoming human) and still possessed WHAT He had before the incarnation, Divine nature.

Jesus was not just some man that God was inside of. That is adoptionism or Unitarianism. That is also two persons

BTW the purpose of the past tense is to focus on the reconciling, not to indicate God is no longer IN Christ. God was IN Christ and doing the reconcilation (when Christ Died)

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

In my opinion, Jesus was Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
and still is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.