Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 483733)

my friend, "MIssion Accomplised" was the correct asessment of what those particular sailors did who were returning after that phase was over.

GWB on the deck of that Carrier STATED that the WAR was NOT over and we had a long road ahead.

this thing that you are repeating is quite a diservice to the men and women who fought so valiantly during those early days in Iraq.

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483736)

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483736)

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483752)

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 483753)

tstew i dotn want them to be like us my man, and i know about the sectarianism in iraq, i am not talking about the ethnic divides i am talking about the terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas, they are the ones the iraqi people should rise against, dt

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 483752)

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 483761)

Well, speaking as a Military man who fought in Desert Storm, and as a man who has 2 uncles who fought in Vietnam.... and who majored in history in college, I disagree.

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 483758)

We live in sad times. It's so hard to watch America going done the toilet- heartbreaking. And to see so many people,
especially God's people decieved in these last and evil days

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 483766)

As the parent of a United States Marine who served two tours in Iraq in the most dangerous places at the time (Fallujah and then Ramadi) I agree 100% with Ferd.

Those of you who claim us opposing Obama are just repeating what the "talking heads" say should take your own advice.

As Ferd said GWB made it clear in that speech on that carrier that the war was far from over and that difficult times lay ahead.

The lib media who hates GWB chooses to ignore all of that and focus on the banner congratulating the men and women of that ship on THEIR mission being done.