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-   -   Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=24332)

Timmy 05-27-2009 01:19 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 753603)

I don't know if I am reading you right or not????? Do you have a problem with the way God did things??
I have a problem with how it is claimed He did things, absolutely. Don't you? You think it's just fine to instruct Moses to deceive Pharaoh (tell him they want to take a 3-day journey to offer sacrifices, not that they wanted to leave forever)? And it's cool to slaughter children because Pharaoh denied that request, even though he couldn't have said yes if he wanted to?

KWSS1976 05-27-2009 01:21 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Light you don't have Timmy figured out yet do ya..LOL

Timmy 05-27-2009 01:24 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWSS1976 (Post 753606)
Light you don't have Timmy figured out yet do ya..LOL
Does anyone, really? :ursofunny

Light 05-27-2009 01:34 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 753605)
I have a problem with how it is claimed He did things, absolutely. Don't you? You think it's just fine to instruct Moses to deceive Pharaoh (tell him they want to take a 3-day journey to offer sacrifices, not that they wanted to leave forever)? And it's cool to slaughter children because Pharaoh denied that request, even though he couldn't have said yes if he wanted to?

No I have no problem with it at all.

I don't even have a problem with him when he destroyed hundreds of thousands of adults, children and even the babies who at their time of life had done no evil in the flood.

I have no problem when he instructed Saul to slaughter innocent babies as they nursed at their mothers breast, because of what a evil King did.

In fact I have no problem with God even though he doesn't call everyone to serve him.

Timmy 05-27-2009 01:47 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 753615)

No I have no problem with it at all.

I don't even have a problem with him when he destroyed hundreds of thousands of adults, children and even the babies who at their time of life had done no evil in the flood.

I have no problem when he instructed Saul to slaughter innocent babies as they nursed at their mothers breast, because of what a evil King did.

In fact I have no problem with God even though he doesn't call everyone to serve him.
Even with all that, would you say God is "just"?

Steve Epley 05-27-2009 02:44 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 753581)
Br Epley your statement contradicts the word of God.

[Rom 9:17] For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Pharaoh had no choice at all, just as Judas had no choice.
At one time I believed as you about these two men and others. Have you noticed in Rom. 9:22....ENDURED WITH MUCH LONGSUFFERING the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. In other words Pharoah-Esau-Judas(though not named) were NOT initially fitted for destruction only AFTER much longsuffering they were fitted. Did God know? Certainly he is infinite. Did God make them chose the evil and resist the good? NEVER. Knowing and decreeing are not the same. I hope that helps.

LUKE2447 05-27-2009 02:48 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Forcing a person to destruction and the ending result saying you deserved hell for eternity is never Justice. You can never have true justice without free will.

Light 05-27-2009 03:26 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 753637)
At one time I believed as you about these two men and others. Have you noticed in Rom. 9:22....ENDURED WITH MUCH LONGSUFFERING the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. In other words Pharoah-Esau-Judas(though not named) were NOT initially fitted for destruction only AFTER much longsuffering they were fitted. Did God know? Certainly he is infinite. Did God make them chose the evil and resist the good? NEVER. Knowing and decreeing are not the same. I hope that helps.
Br. Pharaoh and the others were made or formed as vessels of dishonor. God endured or put up with these vessels of dishonor until the time was right in his plan.

(Rom 9:21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

(Rom 9:22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(Rom 9:23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

LUKE2447 05-27-2009 04:11 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 753654)
Br. Pharaoh and the others were made or formed as vessels of dishonor. God endured or put up with these vessels of dishonor until the time was right in his plan.

(Rom 9:21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

(Rom 9:22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(Rom 9:23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
So God creates vessels simply to be tormented into eternity because he made them that way? So he literally created sinners/defilers of his will?

So this is justice? Seems to me they did the "will of God" and are no different than those who do his will in righteousness.

Sounds to me like you don't believe in free-will!

Steve Epley 05-27-2009 05:07 PM
Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 
When a Calvinist and an Agnostic is arguing watch out.:thumbsup


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