Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 1171190)

I think the point that is being missed is that what ILG has gone thru, among hundreds of others, is not a UPC thing, or a CHURCH thing, but a HUMAN thing.......people treat each other poorly, whether you're in the church or out of it. To blame an organization for the actions of its members is akin to blaming the government of a nation when one of it's constituents commits a crime. There may be a connection, but it's not a direct result of the organization.

I agree that the UPC indoctrinates its constituents to view others outside the Mother Ship as "less than", but it's up to the individual to govern his or her own actions toward others.

Now, I say all that to say this - the exact same thing happens in schools, jobs, neighborhoods, clubs, you name it......to expect that you'll ever find a place where no one causes you grief is to expect Nirvana on earth, and just like Santa Claus - that don't exist.

That's why Hemingway wrote this comment, and I'll post it again, just in case it got lost in the shuffle:

“The world breaks everyone, and afterward,
some are strong at the broken places.” Ernest Hemingway

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 1171190)

Now, I say all that to say this - the exact same thing happens in schools, jobs, neighborhoods, clubs, you name it......to expect that you'll ever find a place where no one causes you grief is to expect Nirvana on earth, and just like Santa Claus - that don't exist.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1171206)

I'm never going to get over this one! :sad

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013 (Post 1171210)

For the record, no one called ILG or anyone else stupid or assinine.

I said her position was. The fact that so many cannot apparently tell the difference between attacking a position and attacking a person is frustrating. And the other poster criticzing ILG's position wasn't calling her names either.

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 1171190)

I think the point that is being missed is that what ILG has gone thru, among hundreds of others, is not a UPC thing, or a CHURCH thing, but a HUMAN thing.......people treat each other poorly, whether you're in the church or out of it. To blame an organization for the actions of its members is akin to blaming the government of a nation when one of it's constituents commits a crime. There may be a connection, but it's not a direct result of the organization.

I agree that the UPC indoctrinates its constituents to view others outside the Mother Ship as "less than", but it's up to the individual to govern his or her own actions toward others.

Now, I say all that to say this - the exact same thing happens in schools, jobs, neighborhoods, clubs, you name it......to expect that you'll ever find a place where no one causes you grief is to expect Nirvana on earth, and just like Santa Claus - that don't exist.

That's why Hemingway wrote this comment, and I'll post it again, just in case it got lost in the shuffle:

“The world breaks everyone, and afterward,
some are strong at the broken places.” Ernest Hemingway

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 1171124)

If I have to chose between losing your respect and being abused spiritually as has been my experience in all the years I went to church, I chose losing your respect.

I'm sorry there has to be any choice at all but apparently there has to be.

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 1171223)

So every single church you could attend would be "spiritual abuse"? Hogwash!

Has it ever dawned on you that if every single church is bad in your mind that maybe the problem is with you and not all the churches?

I am not diminishing the hurt and issues you had with church in your past. What I am saying is that you are using that as an excuse to not be in any church and that excuse is not biblical despite your convoluted logic regarding Jesus and the Sabbath.