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-   -   UPC - "Apostolic" Wesleyan Holiness Standards (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1638)

Hesetmefree238 03-24-2007 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 51353)
This is what I have always understood and if the truth is different than this - can you give me historical documentation that what I have posted is NOT TRUE? I copied this from another thread I was posting on.

Most of the UPC and "Apostolic" "standards" come from the Wesleyan "Holiness" movement in the 1800's that did not even believe in the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or speaking in tongues or Baptism in Jesus Name. THEY WERE TRINITY!!! This is the origin of what you teach your people. You might need to pick up a book or two and research this!

Suzanna Wesley (a sick and depressed woman with many children) was the originator of most of these legalistic rules, regulations, yokes and bondages that you guys call "standards" and put on people!
You might need to remember that they were preaching these things before electricity, lights, indoor plumbing, air conditioning, automobiles, airplanes, space travel, and all the conveniences of modern life. If you are going to preach all the "standards" you do and send everyone else to hell for not living Wesleyan "standards" then you need to preach against modern conveniences like the Amish do. Get your ungodly buttons off your fancy store bought dresses and turn the radio off and get you a BUGGY to drive!

Now I said it - I will let you guys have at it.

What a sweet spirit!

chosenbyone 03-24-2007 07:23 PM

I have family that are UPC and some of them are COG (Cleveland) and I can tell you that the COG strongly enforced standards until the late 1970s to 1980. My grandfather was a pioneer preacher for the COG and he was as strict as any Apostolic conservative today.

What I found to be evident when the COG dropped standards it seemed, generally speaking, that the depth of the demonstration of the Holy Ghost deminished in their services.

Sadly, I've seen the same thing happen to many congregations who left the UPC in the late 1990's. I thought of myself as a member of the liberal camp, but I found the Lord leading me back to the conservative camp.

The Lord placed on my heart that when I started letting go of my standards and allowed and justified earthly entertainment to become common in my life was when I grew lukewarm.

The Lord showed me that he placed me in the UPC for a reason, because he knew what would sustain me in this present world. I won't ever allow myself again to think that I know better than he does when it comes to my salvation. Additionally, I won't judge my brother or sister who are liberal and can live for the Lord and not have the same convictions that I need in my life.

Instead of trying to convince each other who is right and who is wrong we should just treat each other as family. The world needs to know that even though we may not look the same but we are united in our cause to save the lost through the Apostolic doctrine.

freeatlast 03-24-2007 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 51493)
I have family that are UPC and some of them are COG (Cleveland) and I can tell you that the COG strongly enforced standards until the late 1970s to 1980. My grandfather was a pioneer preacher for the COG and he was as strict as any Apostolic conservative today.

What I found to be evident when the COG dropped standards it seemed, generally speaking, that the depth of the demonstration of the Holy Ghost deminished in their services.

Sadly, I've seen the same thing happen to many congregations who left the UPC in the late 1990's. I thought of myself as a member of the liberal camp, but I found the Lord leading me back to the conservative camp.

The Lord placed on my heart that when I started letting go of my standards and allowed and justified earthly entertainment to become common in my life was when I grew lukewarm.

The Lord showed me that he placed me in the UPC for a reason, because he knew what would sustain me in this present world. I won't ever allow myself again to think that I know better than he does when it comes to my salvation. Additionally, I won't judge my brother or sister who are liberal and can live for the Lord and not have the same convictions that I need in my life.

Instead of trying to convince each other who is right and who is wrong we should just treat each other as family. The world needs to know that even though we may not look the same but we are united in our cause to save the lost through the Apostolic doctrine.

You make way to much sense here Chosen. Thanks..I'm going to try to do better at this.

ThePastorsCoach 03-24-2007 07:45 PM

God bless my Apostolic Family
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238 (Post 51477)
What a sweet spirit!

AWE........... Thank you!:ty2
God bless my Apostolic Family!!!!!!!! :hug3

Gary Blacksher 03-24-2007 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 51393)
This is true Barb and so was the organization I was born and raised in - The Church of God of Prophecy and the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and Pentecostal Holiness movements all came out of Wesleyan Holiness tradition. Most have dropped most of the "standards" but do recognize the history of the "holiness" movement and the Wesley's.

My friend if you are going to be this bold than so am I.

What you are saying about the Apostolic Church and the standards of holiness are ALL lies.

You are asking for someone to prove different by scriptures and yet you have proven nothing to be expounded on with scriptures.

You are asking someone to do something that you are not willing to do.

Paul's teachings of ladies with UNCUT hair and men with CUT hair are a bit older than the 1800's.

So start producing truth and not accusations built upon gutless demands with no BIBLICAL truths.

I do apologize for such strong words but I refuse to let the "crusimatics" continue to challenge Biblical Holiness and separation from worldly, ungodly, and in-modest lifestyle thinking.

IMHO this is what the elders called stinking thinking, and the Bible calls false christ, deceivers of sound doctrine, and wolves in sheep's clothing


:yahoo :shockamoo

Sam 03-24-2007 09:47 PM

Below is a quote from "The Winds of God." This book was written by Ethel Goss and is about the early Pentecostal movement (1901-1914) in the life of her husband Howard A. Goss. The copyright date is 1958. At one time, maybe as early as 1958 or 1959 or maybe in the early sixties, I had a hard back copy of the book. I don't know what became of it. I recently got a paper back copy from Word Aflame Press. I have read that book at least twice but it may be as many as three or four times.

Howard Goss was, and is, considered a pioneer and a hero by quite a few people in the Pentecostal movement although many today would have no idea who he was.

In the early years of the Pentecostal movement a group of workers would go into an area and preach. They would go with no church invitation and no financial backing. They felt like they had a message to preach and that God would supply their needs. Their message was salvation, sanctification, healing, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It was called the Apostolic Faith even though it had nothing to do with later teaching on Oneness and baptism in Jesus' Name. Later it would be referred to by some as Full Gospel. Some times they could afford a building to hold meetings in and some times even a separate place to stay. Finances and food came in by the grace of God.

On page 69 of the book he talks about the way they dressed which is in marked contrast to the way some of the preachers preach about standards, clothing, jewelry, etc today. Years ago we used to refer to this as "clothes line preaching." Now I guess it's just considered preaching on standards.

Here's the quote:

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

ChTatum 03-24-2007 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Blacksher (Post 51615)
My friend if you are going to be this bold than so am I.

What you are saying about the Apostolic Church and the standards of holiness are ALL lies.

You are asking for someone to prove different by scriptures and yet you have proven nothing to be expounded on with scriptures.

You are asking someone to do something that you are not willing to do.

Paul's teachings of ladies with UNCUT hair and men with CUT hair are a bit older than the 1800's.

So start producing truth and not accusations built upon gutless demands with no BIBLICAL truths.

I do apologize for such strong words but I refuse to let the "crusimatics" continue to challenge Biblical Holiness and separation from worldly, ungodly, and in-modest lifestyle thinking.

IMHO this is what the elders called stinking thinking, and the Bible calls false christ, deceivers of sound doctrine, and wolves in sheep's clothing


:yahoo :shockamoo

Paul taught uncut hair????

Where?

berkeley 03-24-2007 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChTatum (Post 51645)
Paul taught uncut hair????

Where?

I Corinthians... :igotit

freeatlast 03-24-2007 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 51646)
I Corinthians... :igotit


Nope, not in there. :igotit

freeatlast 03-24-2007 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Blacksher (Post 51615)
My friend if you are going to be this bold than so am I.

What you are saying about the Apostolic Church and the standards of holiness are ALL lies.

You are asking for someone to prove different by scriptures and yet you have proven nothing to be expounded on with scriptures.

You are asking someone to do something that you are not willing to do.

Paul's teachings of ladies with UNCUT hair and men with CUT hair are a bit older than the 1800's.

So start producing truth and not accusations built upon gutless demands with no BIBLICAL truths.

I do apologize for such strong words but I refuse to let the "crusimatics" continue to challenge Biblical Holiness and separation from worldly, ungodly, and in-modest lifestyle thinking.

IMHO this is what the elders called stinking thinking, and the Bible calls false christ, deceivers of sound doctrine, and wolves in sheep's clothing


:yahoo :shockamoo

Gary, this sounds dangerously close to an attack on Bro. Atlanta Bishop.

We try to not do that here on AAF.


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