Apostolic Friends Forum - My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)

- Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~ (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=20466)

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

My feeling about the UPC churches is that they really know how to have church. They are organized, have prayer rooms, usually have great music, and basically get down when church starts.

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance (Post 637285)

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditional in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

TRFrance, we've had non-Pentecostal ministers/leaders stop by our church and the pastor has asked them to say a word or give a testimony. I think it just shows respect.

I'm glad someone gave a good "review" of a UPC church. We don't see a lot of that on this forum anymore.

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Although I PoMo's point, that other Christians in other org.s have a desire to follow their leadership as well-

I just think it is much more of a focal point in the UPC to discuss the importance of having a pastor in your life, they perhaps 'stress' it's importances more frequently than most. imo

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance (Post 637285)

I am all for giving honor to whom honor is due- and I respect and honor the ministry- I also feel we should treat our visitors as honored guests no matter their station in life. There is a New Testament basis for this, also. :friend

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubayou (Post 637360)

No argument there.

Thing is, thought, he didn't say he wasn't treated as an honored guest before they knew he was a minister. ... just that they made a point to quickly notify the pastor on the platform, once they saw that he was a minister. (I think Paul said something about ministers of the Word being worthy of "double honor" 1 Tim 5:17)

I thought that was a very positive and courteous gesture, befitting a minister of the Word. I didnt find it distressing at all :friend

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubayou (Post 637360)

I agree with giving respect to those in the ministry. I also think that asking them to give a short word of testimony is totally appropriate. What I find inappropriate is the fact that AFTER they knew he was a minister, they offered to buy him lunch. Do they offer to buy lunch for all their visitors?

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

It is my opinion that most people in UPCI churches do love God and they try to be multi-cultural. I am not sure a church of 150-200 is a significant % of the local population to make a significant impact in a community.

I will say that churches with Pastor's who "used to be UPCI" as much as they claim to be enlightened or free from the legalism they were subjected to through the years...continue to have a very similar mind-think/paradigm if you would in regard to the authority of the Pastor. This amazes me.

The whole point to Christ's coming to live and die for us was so that He alone would be the mediator between God and man. It is amazing to me the number of sermons or teachings I have heard in the past couple years where Jesus' role as Chief Shepherd and the Pastor are used interchangeably. We are no better than the Catholics in needing a pope, or the Jews in the old Testament demanding a King.

If we indeed are free from legalism and walk in grace then we know that the Pastor's main responsibility is to feed the sheep of Christ's pasture by preaching the word. Obedience to the Pastor is justified by quoting the scipture about the Pastor having to give account... This does not mean he is responsible to give us unwarranted advice or extra-biblical instruction, but he is responsible for being apt to teach and rightly dividing the word of God he preaches. The Pastor is absolutely not responsible for my soul or salvation.

This is my opinion and I have been wanting to say this all week.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 637390)

I agree with giving respect to those in the ministry. I also think that asking them to give a short word of testimony is totally appropriate. What I find inappropriate is the fact that AFTER they knew he was a minister, they offered to buy him lunch. Do they offer to buy lunch for all their visitors?

I don't offer to buy lunch for everyone I meet but if I find he is business in my line of business I may do just that.

www.deltaschoolofdriving.com

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanie (Post 637352)

I think there is a general paradigmatic difference between what most UPC/OP/Apostolic people view as the role and authority of a pastor and those outside of those ranks understand, (generally speaking and with many exceptions). I think that those outside of legalistic environments use their noggins more than those inside and they hold their leaders to a different standard than those in a legalistic evironment. And, yes, I think the vast majority of UPC/OP/Apostolic churches that ascribe to "holiness" teachings are legalistic.

In my experience, which mirrors in most repsects that of CWS, I have found that people respect their pastor as much as UPC folks do and are willing to follow their leaders, but this willingness isn't as blind as many of their Apostolic counterparts. In that respect it can be a little more a leadership challenge to effectively lead these people, but that's a good thing and as it ought to be, imo.

Re: My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookin-with-Stoneking (Post 637260)

This last week I had the luxury to visit a local UPC church in the location where I was away on travel. As a minister who has been out of and away from the org. for sometime I thought it would be interesting to visit my family of origin.

This was a very large church with a pastor/leader that is in official positions within the organization and district.

The building was very nice and very up to date with its decorations. The very young greeter seemed shocked to see me, when I walked in.

The preservice prayer was led by a lively, passion filled youth leader. Brought back precious memories of when I was involved in the work.

I sat down where I would be noticed to see the response of the folks, only one sister walked up introduced herself to me and asked me my name.

About 150-200 multi-cultural people gathered in the large auditorium for service. Good worship and lively singing. What impresses me about UPC people they love God; this continues to be my initial feeling and observation vs. other groups and movements. UPC people really love God, it shows and there is a increase in the presence of God in the midst because of this.

I think there is an imbalance in focus/beliefs about standards and outward issues, but I think the result of a disciplined obedient lifestyle is love for God. I still believe we should live disciplined lives not to earn, or maintain salvation but simply out of love and grateful lives.

As the service went on, various saints came over and greeted me and their concern was genuine.

An usher handed me a visitor card and asked me to fill it out. When I did, I he rushed it up to the pastor on the platform when I marked my vocation as a Pastor/Minister.

A minister on staff was given the task of preaching the midweek service. He was passionate and sincere, but all over the map as far as organization of his message, he initially talked about wanting to get down where we were living but in my mind failed to achieve that task. Most of his message was directed at the value and reason God places a pastor in your life and how we need to take their role and voice serious in our lives. His text in Romans didn't really match too much of what he said. He through in some issues about God helping us through difficult times, we don't need to pull back.

Being back in that setting helped me to realize, I myself need a fresh set of eyes to give me feedback about things I get used to that often need to be addressed from a visitors standpoint.

OP/UPS folks have a unique culture and I think that there is not a real bridge for people outside of it to try it/understand it/partake of it without resisting it because it is so shocking. i.e. Culture=Jesus

Akin to pushing someone into the deep end of a pool without allowing them to test the water and learn to swim.

My conclusions of the visit:

UPC people love God

I appreciate the wonderful things about my heritage, I miss the structure and discipline and even the willingness/obedience to follow leadership that is missing in other movements and groups

It is a unique cultural movement that often outsiders are overwhelmed and have a hard time bridging. We interpret for other language groups, I think they need to interpret and speak the language of the culture where they can without compromising their convictions (I guess that to be the real issue of why they don't build a bridge)

I was impressed by this church's reputation for ministry and its various ethnic outreaches and their impact in the community.

The pastor/district official was very friendly, when I told him who I was and my background he warmed to me immediately and gave him his card and offered to buy me lunch, I appreciate this kindness.

By the way I wasn't shocked by the visit, just I wanted a title to draw attention to my thread.

I appreciate what you posted. I attend two UPC churches in two different states and find both very friendly and God loving.