Apostolic Friends Forum - I refuse to remove the landmarks

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Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 716174)

How far back in time do you go to take a snapshot and call that the "old landmarks"?

Is the use of electricity too modern? What about automobiles?

Do you want to go back to some of the early Apostolic/Pentecostal standards where it was wrong to wear gold rimmed glasses, wear a wrist watch, eat pork, drink cola and/or caffeine beverages, play softball or golf or checkers, wear anything red, have any type of life insurance, read any fictional literature, listen to a radio, visit a doctor or hospital, take any kind of medication whether prescribed or over the counter --even including aspirin or cough medicine, work on Sunday, etc? Or would you progress beyond that and drive in a stake in time in the mid nineteen forties and require men to have flat top haircuts and pencil thin mustaches, and require women to wear either cotton hose or nylon hose if it has seams, not allow women to use pink or pearl nail polish, require women to wear hats and gloves to church, etc.

These "old landmarks" change every couple of years.

I believe that i made my position clear. We should not blend into the world and say we are trying to be relevant. We should be Biblical in our stance. We should be modest. We can do all of this and win the world. What I have noticed is that most of the time when people have problems with what keeps us Biblical and distinct it is because they do not like submission. I do understand that anything can be taken to extremes. However if I am going to be extreme I do not want to be so exteme that I blend in to the world.

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

I agree...the ancient landmarks aren't the cultural dress standards of the 1840's, 1940's, or 1950's. Nor are they eccentric teachings about hair (don't get me started on this one).

The ancient Landmarks, in my opinion are ....

I. Acts 2:38

1. Repentance
2. Jesus name baptism
3. Holy Ghost infilling with speaking in other tongues

II. Loving the Lord your God will all your heart

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. (Oneness)
2. You shall not make idols or bow down to them, nor serve them. (Exclusive Christianity)
3. You shall not use the name of the Lord your God disrespectfully.(Reverence and Jesus name)
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Worship)

III. Loving your neighbor as yourself

5. Honor your father and your mother. (Family)
6. You shall not murder. (Value of Life)
7. You shall not commit adultery. (Value of Marriage)
8. You shall not steal. (Respecting the property of others)
9. You shall not lie about your neighbor. (Honest)
10. You shall not lust for your neighbor's house, or his wife, or any
thing that is your neighbor's. (Contentment)

All the "standards" we embrace are not "biblical". They too are a snapshot of what was culturally expected when the movement was in it's beginnings.

IV. Christian modesty

1. In dress
2. In attitude
3. In lifestyle

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 716191)

There are still a lot of us who agree with you but you won't find them on AFF. Most here have adapted to the easy route.

I dare you to stand and look me in the eye and say we have taken "the easy route". Shows how much you know. Leaving what you have always known and loved to do what you feel God has called you to do is not the easy route. The easy thing would have been to stay and blend in and climb up the district ladder, which is what we were promised if we "played our cards right".

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach (Post 716161)

Prov 22:28
28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.

I find it interesting that many after being blessed by finding the Truth, begin to seek ways to change what they have received.

Men and women before us understood the strength in Holiness, both inside and out. They were wise enough to know that the NEW BIRTH experience was just the beginning. Men were to dress like men and women like women. Because this was right in the eyes to the LORD. And still is. Men and women were to dress modestly and still should. Uncut hair on a women was her covering and showed her submission to her head and long hair on a man was a shame and still is.

Just because culture changes it's view does not mean the church should or that GOD has.

I am progressive in the sense that I believe we should change our methods for reaching the world in need. I am an old time preacher in the sense that I do not believe we should ever change our MESSAGE, any of it.

Bro. Howard Goss received the Holy Ghost Baptism in the early 1900's. The book The Winds of God was written by Ethel Goss and is about the early Pentecostal movement (1901-1914) in the life of her husband Howard A. Goss.The copyright date is 1958. This book is available from the Pentecostal Publishing House.

Howard Goss was, and is, considered a pioneer and a hero by quite a few people in the Pentecostal movement although many today would have no idea who he was.

In the early years of the Pentecostal movement a group of workers would go into an area and preach. They would go with no church invitation and no financial backing. They felt like they had a message to preach and that God would supply their needs. Their message was salvation, sanctification, healing, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It was called the Apostolic Faith even though it had nothing to do with later teaching on Oneness and baptism in Jesus' Name. Later it would be referred to by some as Full Gospel. Some times they could afford a building to hold meetings in and some times even a separate place to stay. Finances and food came in by the grace of God.

On page 69 of the book he talks about the way they dressed which is in marked contrast to the way some of the preachers preach about standards, clothing, jewelry, etc today. Years ago we used to refer to this as "clothes line preaching." Now I guess it's just considered preaching on standards.

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

The easy route is to have someone else decide all the rules for you, never question anything, live up to the outward standards and treat others any way you want to. The real test is when you work hard to build character, reputation, and integrity. That's the hardest part - working on the inside. The outside part is not that big a deal. Or it wasn't for me. By "standards" I suppose most would consider me moderate to conservative or ultra conservative maybe - but I love this forum because it allows for people to be themselves. God allows for more flexibility in some things than some men do.

The message is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes, I love the Acts 2:38 message but the gospel and the message are so much more than that.

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 716195)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. (Oneness)
2. You shall not make idols or bow down to them, nor serve them. (Exclusive Christianity)
3. You shall not use the name of the Lord your God disrespectfully.(Reverence and Jesus name)
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Worship)

II. Love your neighbor as yourself.

5. Honor your father and your mother. (Family)
6. You shall not murder. (Value of Life)
7. You shall not commit adultery. (Value of Marriage)
8. You shall not steal. (Respecting the property of others)
9. You shall not lie about your neighbor. (Honest)
10. You shall not lust for your neighbor's house, or his wife, or any
thing that is your neighbor's. (Contentment)

All the "standards" we embrace are not "biblical". They too are a snapshot of what was culturally expected when the movement was in it's beginnings.

I would totally agree that the dress standards (holiness ) from the 1840,1940 or 50's . They are much older than that. However a women can dress like a women, in dresses and skirts and still look fashionable. A man can look like a man and still look trendy. Then biggest problem is that teaching on this subject has been harsh and hurtful in the past.

I agree with every thing you mentioned as landmarks. But we can not leave off ones we do not like.

GOD BLESS

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalkLady (Post 716200)

Good post, TL!

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 716191)

There are still a lot of us who agree with you but you won't find them on AFF. Most here have adapted to the easy route.

That is why I started this thread. I am new to this forum and I know that I will not make any friends with this thread, but I wanted to see how liberal people here were. I have my answer.

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach (Post 716202)

Do you believe that a man could wear women's slacks?

Re: I refuse to remove the landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach (Post 716211)

That is why I started this thread. I am new to this forum and I know that I will not make any friends with this thread, but I wanted to see how liberal people here were. I have my answer.

Hey, you might like it here. I miss many of the conservatives who used to be here. Why can't we talk about things about which we agree? I love Jesus Christ. You love Jesus Christ. I won't be unfriendly to anyone. I have Friends in the real world who are conservative and I have Friends in the real world who are liberal. Jesus was a Friend to Sinners (not saying you are a sinner by the way).....Even if you think we're sinners, stay around and post. :thumbsup