Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

A persona, in the word's everyday usage, is a social role or a character played by an actor. This is an Italian word that derives from the Latin for "mask" or "character", derived from the Etruscan word "phersu", with the same meaning. The word is also thought to be derived from Greek, "per" meaning "through" and "sona" meaning "sound", meaning something in the vein of "that through which the actor speaks", i.e. a mask (early Greek actors wore masks). - Wikpedia

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

Form refers to servant, likeness in the same verse refers to man...

likeness, i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity.
Thayers

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

Persona and persons can pretty much mean the same thing.

Here are a few lessor used definitions of "Person" from Dictionary.com

-- a character, part, or role, as in a play or story.

-- any of the three hypostases or modes of being in the Trinity, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.



I find the latter one very interesting!

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

Hey Steve!

Now an Arian is one who does not believe Yeshua is the Eternal Father. Am I right or wrong? So if I believe and teach that he is am I an Arian?

If Arians believe like me that Yeshua is the Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Eternal Father and the Prince of Peace then they are correct.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

First of all start with verse 1. In times past he spoke to us through prophets but in these last days in or through a Son.

This points to the incarnation.

Next then it says God created by the Son. God created. If we look at John's gospel he starts with the Logos and only after the logos is made flesh does he call him "Son".

If God's agency isn't someone other than God, then God's agency is His own Word.

Bernard though sees this as God creating with the Son in view or in mind, the very foundation or corner stone of creation.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

Arians believe God made Jesus and Jesus made everything else.:thumbsup

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

Good thought Prax.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

I understand that, but any way you look at it, vs 2 still says God created by and through the Son.

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

1 In the beginning was the Word. and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was not anything made
that was made.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world
knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
13 Which were born, not of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1-3, 10-14 KJV

Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 

God IS a Spirit. God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.
A lamb or sinless sacrifice was prepared from the foundation of the world.
God could not die so he overshadowed the virgin Mary and she conceived
and gave birth to a Son, that COULD die, when the Spirit withdraw at the
Cross. God looked for a man in the OT but said He couldn't find one. So he
took His own seed and begot His Son. It was God's seed that Jesus came
from. God's seed and a virgin maiden.

God IS BIG and Great enough to carry out HIS Own Plan. He can do it all
by HIMSELF.

How Great Is Our GOD!

The splendor of a King,
Clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice,
All the earth rejoice
He wraps himself in light,
And darkness tries to hide
And trembles at his voice,
And trembles at his voice

How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God

Age to age he stands
And time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, Three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
The Lion and the Lamb,
The Lion and the Lamb


How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God

Name above all names
You are Worthy of all praise
and My heart will sing how great
Is our God

How great is our God,
Sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God