Apostolic Friends Forum - "death panels" obamacare

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Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 786394)

All of the misinformation that is floating out there about this plan.

There are no death panels, and those that continue to promote this term are spreading misinformation.

I have a strong feeling you have no clue what his plan really is do you?

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther (Post 786399)

I have a strong feeling you have no clue what his plan really is do you?

I do know a little bit about it. I have read up on it a little, like every American should do.

I do know that there are no death panels in the bill.

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther (Post 786399)

I have a strong feeling you have no clue what his plan really is do you?

Exactly!!!

Quote:

Put together the concepts of prognosis and age, and Dr. Emanuel's proposal reasonably could be construed as advocating the withholding of some level of medical treatment (probably not basic care, but likely expensive advanced care) to a baby born with Down Syndrome. You may not like this implication, but it is Dr. Emanuel's implication not Palin's.

The next question is, whether Dr. Emanuel's proposal bears any connection to current Democratic proposals. There is no single Democratic proposal at this point, only a series of proposals and concepts. To that extent, Palin's comments properly are viewed as a warning shot not to move to Dr. Emanuel's concept of health care rationing based on societal worth, rather than a critique of a specific bill ready for vote.

Certainly, no Democrat is proposing a "death panel," or withholding care to the young or infirm. To say such a thing would be political suicide.

But one interesting concept which is central to the concepts being discussed is the creation of a panel of "experts" to make the politically unpopular decisions on allocating health care resources. In a letter to the Senate, Barack Obama expressed support for such a commission:

I am committed to working with the Congress to fully offset the cost of health care reform by reducing Medicare and Medicaid spending by another $200 to $300 billion over the next 10 years, and by enacting appropriate proposals to generate additional revenues. These savings will come not only by adopting new technologies and addressing the vastly different costs of care, but from going after the key drivers of skyrocketing health care costs, including unmanaged chronic diseases, duplicated tests, and unnecessary hospital readmissions.

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm's brother, tapped for White House health care policy advisor

Quote:

Dr. Emanuel, who is divorced and a father of three daughters, just last year published a 240-page book on health care reform — the product of his collaboration with Mr. Fuchs — based on his two decades of practicing medicine, researching bioethics issues and studying the intersection of policy and politics.

Quote:

Rahm Emanuel said last summer on "The Charlie Rose Show" that his older brother's health care plan was "a game-changer" but that it is politically unfeasible because it would "scare a good portion of the American people

."

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisp (Post 786404)

I do know a little bit about it. I have read up on it a little, like every American should do.

I do know that there are no death panels in the bill.

Have you read the ammendments to the bill?

Yesterday some Democrat congressman was confronted by a dad with a grown handicapped son. he read the bill. You have not.
The bill has bad news for palsy patients. The congressman says ammendments will cover it. That is how deceptive selling practices work. It isn't in the contract but 'trust me" we got ya covered.

DEATH CZAR Not a panel

Quote:

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm Emanuel and Obama’s Health Policy Adviser, announced a new “Complete Lives System” for selecting which sections of the population should be killed, in his article “Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions.”. His writings were published Jan. 31, 2009 (THIS YEAR!) in the British medical journal Lancet…11 days after President Obama’s inauguration.

On March 19, Emanuel was appointed to the Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research, to begin the design of a Federal system for withdrawing care from those chosen for death. Dr. Emanuel provides a preview of how such a system will get started…

http://rightsoup.com/rahms-brother-d...he-death-czar/

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Don’t get me started on Obama’s “Science Czar”, John Holdren. Besides advocating forced abortions and sterilizations- he doesn’t consider you a human even AFTER you are born…you must be “properly fed and socialized” before you win that prize.

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

“Such an approach accepts a two-tiered health system-some citizens will receive only basic services while others will receive both basic and some discretionary health services… Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia

.”

Emanuel’s cold, academic language can’t disguise his philosophies’ resemblances to Adolf Hitler’s. Here’s how Emanuel sums up who is to be treated, and who is to die:

Quote:

“When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” This may be justified by public opinion, since “broad consensus favours adolescents over very young infants, and young adults over very elderly people.”

Of course, the elderly won’t be the only ones killed. Infants are at the top of his list as well.

Obama drones don't know what is going on. Willfull ignorance.

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie (Post 786407)

Please provide some sort of link that explains what you are talking about. Preferably, not to a blog but to an actual news source.

Re: "death panels" obamacare

None of the right-wingers can ever explain why people in countries with public healthcare systems (Canada, UK, Australia, and 16 others) LIVE LONGER than people in the US. In fact, average lifespan in the US is (8) months shorter than Costa Rica (where by the way you can't even drink the water). And the healthcare system is the "best in the world?" hahahahahaha.......

Re: "death panels" obamacare

(8) Preventive services, including those services recommended with a grade of A or B by the Task Force on Clinical Preventive Services and those vaccines recommended for use by the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
section 123

Quote:

Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.

(3) MEMBERSHIP- The Health Benefits Advisory Committee shall be composed of the following members, in addition to the Surgeon General:

(A) 9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the President.

Gotta open section 122, 123 and 124 and combine them.

When we do read and report, the Obama idiots start tossing out words like un patriotic and misinformation.

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Here are a few questions to ask about specific HR 3200 areas….

Page 30: A Government committee will decide what treatments & benefits you get. This would be the “Death Panel” and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process.

Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services.

Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans such as SEIU, UAW and ACORN.

Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care Plan

Page 149: Any Employer with a payroll of $400k or more, who does not offer a public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

Page 241: Doctors: no matter what medical specialty, will all receive the same compensation!!!! You can thank the AMA.

Page 272: Cancer patient treatment will be on a case by case depending on cost of treatment.

Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals

Page 425: Advance Care Planning: Counseling for Senior Citizens, assisted suicide and euthanasia.

Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services will be made available: organizations such as ACORN.

Page 472: Payments will be provided to Community-based organizations (ACORN).

Re: "death panels" obamacare

Sounds like a standard public healthcare system. Like the ones in Europe and Australia and Canada. You know, places where people LIVE LONGER. If you don't live longer how can you say you have the best system in the world?

8% is less than employee/employer health insurance cost anyway. I will take it. LOL. Wait, I already keep 100% and have free healthcare too!