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Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 874323)

Apostolic Identity, IMO, means Apostolic "isolation," "disconnection," "irrelevancy," "arrogance" etc.
The "By this......" is Jesus Gold Standard for His disciples. Until this happens, the UPCI will be stuck in a closet boasting about numbers gained instead of lost. The org is NOT growing even amidst all their shouting and back patting etc. Honestly, I would love to see God do a great work, but not for the sake of a doctrine or an identity. But for the sake of the lost and His glory.

If people get Jesus, everything will be OK. If all they get is a doctrine and an identity, all they did was get converted not saved! Think about that!!!! :D

Could be - but it need not be that way. I know it has not had that effect in my own family - while I don't agree with some points, I would be hard pressed to say any negative aspects outweighed the positives. Many Christians, reject portions of modern culture and lifestyle, yet have huge impact in their circle of influence.

I do think conservatives (UPC included) need to adjust their perception of other Christians - those who don't tow their own expression in Christian ID. Yeah..., that really is smoke drifting from those other chimneys - not just steam.

About groweth, the UPC often fails to get the numbers right at the back door, hence the numbers are tweaked. Nevertheless, they are growing or maintaining not shrinking as are the majority of Evangelicals and Protestant denominations.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 874364)

Could be - but it need not be that way. I know it has not had that effect in my own family - while I don't agree with some points, I would be hard pressed to say any negative aspects outweighed the positives. Many Christians, reject portions of modern culture and lifestyle, yet have huge impact in their circle of influence.

I do think conservatives (UPC included) need to adjust their perception of other Christians - those who don't tow their own expression in Christian ID. Yeah..., that really is smoke drifting from those other chimneys - not just steam.

About growth, the UPC often fails to get the numbers right at the back door, hence the numbers are tweaked. Nevertheless, they are growing or maintaining not shrinking as are the majority of Evangelicals and Protestant denominations.

:thumbsup

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin (Post 874305)

I glanced through it last week and I don't remember seeing John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm at work and do not have the copy with me, can someone verifiy if DB even mentioned this verse? He talks about Holiness Inward and Outward, but that's all I can remember.

Thanks.

Love for others is not a UPC characteristic and would not be part of the Manual (UPC Apocrypha) nor the Affirmation Statement.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 874410)

Love for others is not a UPC characteristic and would not be part of the Manual (UPC Apocrypha).

Ouch.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Here's an older article from the author of ninetyandnine.

http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archive...0121/cover.htm

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 874410)

Love for others is not a UPC characteristic and would not be part of the Manual (UPC Apocrypha) nor the Affirmation Statement.

Yes, a bit harsh but needs to be said. "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" is nowhere to be found.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 874410)

Love for others is not a UPC characteristic and would not be part of the Manual (UPC Apocrypha) nor the Affirmation Statement.

This is nuts. Granted my life experience is not huge... but I have never seen so many with so little give so much as UPC people.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 874422)

This is nuts. Granted my life experience is not huge... but I have never seen so many with so little give so much as UPC people.

I think Sam is probably referring to it not being codified in any documents, affirmation or manual. That is what I was talking about myself when I said it was nowhere to be found.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 874428)

I think Sam is probably referring to it not being codified in any documents, affirmation or manual. That is what I was talking about myself when I said it was nowhere to be found.

That is how I took it. Not so much people.

Re: Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 874428)

I think Sam is probably referring to it not being codified in any documents, affirmation or manual. That is what I was talking about myself when I said it was nowhere to be found.

Even that being the case it changes nothing - actions speak louder than codified documents.

Love for others is a UPC characteristic. I see them opening homes, arms and wallets to would be homeless strangers. Many are poverty level themselves but outgive some professionals with much greater incomes because they love people, love Jesus and His gospel.