Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54030)

I'd love to respond flippantly, but I can't because I'm not sure whether you're joking or not.... :D

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54034)

Minus the curls, they just look gay. :oops

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54037)

My advice (as if I were asked for it) is if you want to be used - obey the rules. Be careful - don't voice things like this too loudly or you will be labeled as a non-conformist and trouble maker.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54052)

Wow...so much to disagree with...where to start????



If you voice disagreement too loudly, especially in a way that persuades others to your point of view in opposition to leadership, you are making trouble, e.g., sowing discord.



How? It isn't possible to minister effectively unless you agree with everyone around you?



Which means that many pastors will automatically see "pushing the envelope" as testing the boundaries, and not necessarily as a good thing!!!! Rightfully so, I think.



Got scripture for that? :happydance



NOT so!!! If you are in ministry you are accountable to God for every person you influence and lead and minister to. JMHO!!!!! If you're going to be in ministry, shoulder the burden of extra accountability or do something else with your life!

Originally Posted by ReformedDave (Post 54040)

Actually, for once, I'm serious.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54052)

Wow...so much to disagree with...where to start????

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 53964)

Went to a wonderful fellowship last night. Lots of food and lots of laughs. One of the things that makes serving the Lord so awesome.

I began to look around at "us" and recall how we are quite the braggerts when it comes to separation. At times it almost becomes a prejudice as we look down on people who cannot afford the more "in style" modest dress.

I then began to look at those that held position at church and began to realize how foolish my thinking is. The bottum line is modesty and we must make a clear evaluation of what that is.

One gentlemen had on some stone washed jeans so tight I said a quiet prayer for his nether region. OUCH! His shirt sleeves were tight as to show tattoos of wizards, past relationships, etc. etc.

Another, in the middle of a casual setting, sported his expensive high fashion dress shoes, very gaudy and decrative. Name brand shirt and slacks very evident.

Then we look at the female examples of modesty. We had two or three playing ball in the yard with very revealing form fitting t-shirts. We had some young teenagers with skirts climbing monkey bars, sliding down slides,etc.

The most appalling of the evening was the youth pastors wife. Her clothes could not have been any tighter. Form fitting jean skirt barely covered the knees. My wife told me later that evening she helped her get some things in the kitchen and when she bent over her shirt crawled up her back halfway. I don't know if there were any men present at the time or not.

Then I think of how there is a no shorts rule on the men for our softball team. I think of the guilt that consumes me when I wish to wear shorts to mow the yard. How I feel the necessity to remain secretive in sending my 3yr old to school in shorts for outside play. Pants in the winter.

Preacher man, don't you think for a second that your so-called dress codes are anymore modest than the things I refrain from. Refrain from not because I believe them but because I want to be used.

I feel a lot of times I am amoungst hipocrites.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54037)

True Dan - I was told so many times - Its Cold and Dark out there and everybody I know that left us - they wish they were back here with us!

My advice (as if I were asked for it) is if you want to be used - obey the rules. Be careful - don't voice things like this too loudly or you will be labeled as a non-conformist and trouble maker. You will be limiting your ministry in said church or organization if you keep thinking this way or voicing your thoughts.
There are hypocrites in everything and every church there is. Conservative - liberal, progressive, middle of the road, hard line - in EVERY kind - so don't think this is exclusive with your group. There are people in every kind of church that push the envelope to see how far they can go.
I had to come down hard on this past Sunday with a great crowd there - I had no other time to do it - but I had to lay down the law on the walking and talking and water fountain going and all the carrying on. Even when you are considered "liberal" people will push at the limitations so - if your happy in ministry where you are - obey the rules - keep a good spirit - stop worrying about what others do - you are NOT responsible for them - You are only responsible for YOU! God bless you - I feel your pain!

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 54060)

Originally Posted by Kutless (Post 54055)

For the record........not sowing the discord. One person knows me personally on here. I was just airing some stuff out.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 54058)

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 54041)

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54064)

I didn't think you were, Kutless. I was disagreeing with AB, not you. He has a rather short fuse, you know. ...fun to observe.... :neener

Truthfully, we've probably all observed the same inconsistencies and either wondered about them or voiced our observations privately...

In reality, though, we probably all have inconsistencies, if we were viewed through a microscope. I know I don't have it all figured out. Just this past week, my husband allowed my daughter to buy a pair of gauchos...and while I could say all day long that there's not technically anything wrong with wearing gauchos, especially to play or for PE...when she put them on, I found them to be offensive and demanded that she wear something else, and the only reason I could come up with was that they didn't look very feminine, and she's looking at me as if I've grown two heads since they were very loose, and looked no different from the culottes I sewed for her at the beginning of the year!????

So I think many of us have contradictions that are convictions and traditions and preferences and habits all mixed up together, and sometimes its hard to separate them and decipher one from the other.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54067)

As long as I can make the important distinction that I DO bathe regularly, whereas Ms. Oakley was known for her foul stench and aversion to bathing!!!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 54072)

You're just a MEANIE

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54081)

I'm really not. Not really. At least, not all the time. Although...I do have my moments....:aaa

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 54086)

I think what you do in your yard is no one else's business.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54052)

Wow...so much to disagree with...where to start????

If you voice disagreement too loudly, especially in a way that persuades others to your point of view in opposition to leadership, you are making trouble, e.g., sowing discord.

How? It isn't possible to minister effectively unless you agree with everyone around you?

Which means that many pastors will automatically see "pushing the envelope" as testing the boundaries, and not necessarily as a good thing!!!! Rightfully so, I think.

Got scripture for that? :happydance

NOT so!!! If you are in ministry you are accountable to God for every person you influence and lead and minister to. JMHO!!!!! If you're going to be in ministry, shoulder the burden of extra accountability or do something else with your life!

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54109)

WOW - calm down!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THE POST!

1. I do not allow for sowing discord. I was simply saying - that if you do not agree - put your disagreement aside for the sake of ministering to others where you are!

2. I am not FOR "pushing the envelope" - I was saying "Don't Push the Envelope!"

3. He did not say he was a PASTOR - From what I understand - this person has some areas of responsibility - a SS teacher maybe or the treasurer or an usher - who knows??? They were concerned that other people - WHOM THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR - were not modest. That is the PASTORS responsibility and not another saint or even minister in the Church responsibility to deal with.


If you are NOT the pastor (and have not been given the responsibilty of pastoring people) - it is none of your Cotton pickin' business what others wear. It is NOT your responsibility to deal with it or to worry about it - there are too many people in the church that make everybody Else's business their own and their own house is a mess. JMHO!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54115)

Dan - did you get all that negative stuff out of my post?

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54109)

WOW - calm down!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THE POST!

1. I do not allow for sowing discord. I was simply saying - that if you do not agree - put your disagreement aside for the sake of ministering to others where you are!...

If you are NOT the pastor (and have not been given the responsibilty of pastoring people) - it is none of your Cotton pickin' business...

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I didn't think you were, Kutless. I was disagreeing with AB, not you. He has a rather short fuse, you know. ...fun to observe....

Originally Posted by Ronzo (Post 54085)

Who are you kidding? I'm petrified of you.

When you start picking my posts apart, I want to run and hide.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54115)

Dan - did you get all that negative stuff out of my post?

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54122)

Okay, so you were actually encouraging submission to authority. Forgive me for reading the post with another, preconceived idea about your perspectives that may have tainted my response. :friend

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 54127)

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54122)

Okay, so you were actually encouraging submission to authority. Forgive me for reading the post with another, preconceived idea about your perspectives that may have tainted my response. :friend

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 54135)

I was absolutely encouraging submission to authority! When I was in the UPC - especially toward the end - I still did not have a TV. I did not have one for 18 years. As long as I was in the organization - I obeyed the rules.
If you are going to be in it - you should obey their rules and respect their standards. When I go to a UPC church to minister - I shave! We attend a local very strict Apostolic Church here in Atlanta about twice a month on Sunday nights (we only have Sunday mornings where I pastor) and my wife takes her earrings off and usually wears her hair up. I take off my wedding ring and we respect the rules of the house.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 54130)

Possibly. Or, I could just be reloading....:happydance

I hate it that I have to go, but I do. *sigh* This always happens...I start enjoying a thread (or two) and my schedule interferes. HEHE!! I wonder if counselling is in order, when going shopping and posting on AFF becomes a decision worth weighing??? :D

...wow...

*self-analysis* I NEED HELP!!! SOMEbody HELP ME!!!! *runs screaming from the forum*

Okay, not really. I'm still here, refreshing posts, until the last minute (1:55).

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 53975)

Lists of rules rather than basic concepts end up missing the concept completely.

I have seen some of the same things you speak of as well.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop (Post 53982)

Hmmmmmmmmmm Maybe the beginning of the end!
You might end up out here in the darkness with us "non-union" boys!
It's mighty lonely out here - we don't believe in nothin' anymore!
No Standards at all and we act like we never heard the word holiness or modesty.
Be careful - thinking like that will get you to reading the Bible and eventually you will be a Crusy Matic!
Just gone to the pure dogs! Pitiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 54164)

Right....yep those girls aren't pants...no ungodly pants on them...nope. They are wearing skirts just like they were told...skirts or dresses...yup. But they be TIGHT. They are sensual. I see a lot of the younger girls wearing tight tops too with tight skirts that leave little to the imagination anymore.

What's more important...not wearing that which "pertaineth to a man" or dressing modestly?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 53988)

I think Kutless ... is worried he won't be used ... Bishop you know what it's like not being able to serve God in this abyss... as my former GS told me when I resigned ... that I would be LIMITING MY MINISTRY.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 54175)

Ah...and he was right? You've limited your ministry of mockery and sarcasm to just two forums? :tiphat

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 54175)

Ah...and he was right? You've limited your ministry of mockery and sarcasm to just two forums? :tiphat

Originally Posted by MrsMcD (Post 54174)

Well, stop looking. :slaphappy

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 54178)

Hey Prax ... nice uppercut ... you are getting good at sarcasm ... make sure you protect w/ your left.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 54183)

I know you are trying to be funny, but that is just asinine. Are we so carnally minded that we have to dress in such a way as to reveal our sexuality to other members...even married ones?