Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I simply believe it was a part of evolving and the fear of losing decency when America was going another way. That was their best solution, but are finding that it doesn't work as well as it may have in the 50's and subsequent years.

I see changes and the evolving continuing. Even though it's a slow process, it is happening. I see leaders coming into place that have had circumstances in their lives open their eyes to more compassion, understanding and a genuine reach for the things that matter more to God than a system.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Right, Bro H. Preachers in some circles are pressured by their peers to conform and be a certain way. They would never do such things otherwise.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Amen!

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Whom are you speaking to?

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I'm sorry but I am having a hard time seeing where you are coming from.

Take alcohol for example. How are we to judge what is in moderation and what isnt? Isnt our heart corruptible? I don't see how it could be acceptable for us as Christ followers to partake in something so worldy, something that causes such havoc and wreckage. I just can't see it fitting for a born-again Christian to regularly partake in. What's the purpose of alcohol, to relax? To unwind? Does it not become an idol? And I suppose smoking is alright in moderatioin? I see it as a self-soothing substitute. I don't know what good can come out of it, so I suppose the one who feels it alright to drink or smoke as a Christian should deeply examine themselves of the motive behind their desire. I believe that thel Lord is our source and supply.. Anyways, that's the way I feel.. I hope someone can see where I am coming from. God bless

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 1 Cor 10:31

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Ephesians 5:18


If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Cor 3:17

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Cor 6:19

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:13

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Gal 5:9

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I don't drink but for example suppose a Christian has a medical issue and drunk a little passover wine for their probelm as suggested by a doctor ok then suppose a Christian has a medical issue then takes a prescription drug as ordered by a doctor that can be habit-forming for a medical probelm what's the difference ?

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

That one is easy. :) The Bible addresses it. It says not to become drunken. So, if you're drinking enough to become drunk, you're drinking too much. The Bible addresses moderation with alcohol in several places.

The Bible does say wine will gladden the hearts of men.

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

I don't drink alcohol, and I think it's something that should be handled very carefully.... but the Bible definitely does not forbid it.



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Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I think a person's motives comes to play in issues like this.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Would taking Nyquil be a sin ?

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I believe that God is our healer, yet He has created medicine as a means of healing as well. Still, all healing comes from God. Personally, I always pray when I am sick and many times I am healed, yet there are times when I take medicine because the sickness drags on is hindering me from continuing on with my daily routine. Its not my very first choice, but I feel I have to do it sometimes, knowing that I have put God first.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Exactly

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

And thus we see how everything that should be "in moderation" becomes an absolute sin in the minds of many.

And then one half step later, becomes a matter of salvation as a codified rule, or another step on the checklist.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Very good assessment of the road to error where man controls things and not the Lord.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

What I meant was how are we to judge ourselves on how much we are able to handle dealing with something like alcohol. It can so easily become sin. Alot of people say that they will just have a little of something, do it once, then end up going all the way or getting hooked. That's why MOTIVES are very important to examine. If its for a medical reason, or something of the like, then I believe God sees that. Yet if someone says its for something else yet are really dependent on it and it is a stumbling block in their Christian walk, they should examine that as well. I know God knows the heart, we don't.. I am not trying to condemn an honest soul, just expressing my personal opinion, and the need to self-examine. I just pray that us as the body of Christ do not fall into any type of deception and we would give ourselves wholly to Christ.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Amen. Personally, I will not touch alcohol from now until He comes! And I hate the taste of it. lol

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

This is just my observation, but I think when the Holiness standards were set down the country was already in a more moderate state of mind and, therefore, the scriptures in Deut 22:5 and I Timothy 2:9 were taken at face value and not studied out.

When things began to change and the assessment was the "flappers, WWII and Rosie the Riveter" reared their head and were changing the countries values, men wanted to curb this by defining themselves on dress.

Back when this was laid out, it was accepted because the core of the church was still living a more moderate lifestyle in dress. Even us as Catholics wore dresses all the time.


Even for myself, I never thought there was more to Deut 22:5 than simply a gender distinction of clothing. I didn't look at that scripture closely until just the last four years. I didn't study out I Cor 11 until that time either.

What I focused on more was trying to learn to not lose my temper (lol), how and why does God keep loving us, keeping a consistent prayer life, and the basic tenets of Christian service and faith. The other scriptures I referenced, never occurred to me at that time.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

This is true of many things. One reason I choose not to drink is because there are numerous alcoholics in my family. Whether or not this is a genetic thing, I don't know, but since so many in my family have not been able to handle alcohol, I've chosen to not even test myself. :) It's my personal decision. But I believe that a Christian does have liberty in this area, biblically.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

True. Wasn't it during the Prohibition period that alcohol went into the "sin" category?

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

I actually assumed it was well before then.

And I know this thread isn't about alcohol but it does make a good example since it IS considered a black & white sin in the minds of many/most -and yet Jesus MADE the stuff!

And when a phrase like "gladden the heart" is used in scripture (and not in a disparanging way) doesn't that indicate that there is at least a little "tipsiness"?

I think a huge problem (with alcohol) today as opposed to then (biblical times) is how available it is! I get the impression that wine was NOT easy to come by, at least the good stuff that you would actually want to drink, where as today you can pick it up for 4.99 a bottle!

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Good words. I think many manners of enforcing standards are due to lack of awareness of Spirit leading, and teaching folks about it.

If people walk after the Spirit, they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Period.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

Good points.

And now these doctrines are so foundational to our beliefs that it comes as a real shock to people when you question them.

Re: The Removal of Romans 14:22
 

To some people it is. And I can see why. "You believed this all of your life and now you are changing?!!!!!"

The big problem, that many see, are those that leave change their view of doctrine and even the operation of the Spirit of God, to name a few. I saw my oldest sister do that after being hurt on the mission field and coming home broke. We have differences of opinion on Acts 2:38, which we rarely discuss.

We don't see, in our communities, any churches doing anything more or having a move of God like we do, so we stay and wonder how to keep what we have while changing others things.

It definitely is not something that can change overnight. And it's definitely something that only God can work out in each life. What I don't want to do is pour on the criticism for people - either way. I don't criticize those that leave and I guess I would expect the same for those that stay. There is too much involved to take this and handle it lightly.