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-   -   Selling Out to Cash In.... Ex-Apostolics... (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=4038)

CC1 05-25-2007 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127685)
This is precisely my point... they have sold the Truth... to cash in for personal gain... or to promote False Doctrine...

they have lowered themselves to this level..and it's sad... no matter how wealthy they are or will become..
But you would say the same thing about my pastor and church because it is PCI in doctrine.

I just don't like everybody who doesnt' beleive just like you do being lumped together.

There is so much difference between an L.H. Hardwick and a Steve Munsey they are on opposite ends of the earth!

SDG 05-25-2007 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127687)
Root??

Dan.. Is everybody that leaves the UPC or Apostolic fellowship a Victim?
Is every one who stays overly sensitive .....????

The root is love of money ....

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 127680)
See Rksmith......most of us exer's HERE feel this way.
That being said.. I don't think for the most part many of you have left the Oneness Doctrine either?? Have you??

SDG 05-25-2007 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 127689)
But you would say the same thing about my pastor and church because it is PCI in doctrine.

I just don't like everybody who doesnt' beleive just like you do being lumped together.

There is so much difference between an L.H. Hardwick and a Steve Munsey they are on opposite ends of the earth!
Exactly ... if they don't fit .... w/ my view .....then they have to be money-crazed ....

SDG 05-25-2007 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127691)
That being said.. I don't think for the most part many of you have left the Oneness Doctrine either?? Have you??
Herein lies the difference ... you have equated the Oneness doctrine as being salvational while some have not ... even among your ranks.

SoCalUltraConservative 05-25-2007 03:08 PM
They're a victim of their own mentality.

rgcraig 05-25-2007 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127691)
That being said.. I don't think for the most part many of you have left the Oneness Doctrine either?? Have you??
You are correct - that's why I responded to rksmith's post - - wrong forum.

CC1 05-25-2007 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalUltraConservative (Post 127698)
They're a victim of their own mentality.
Something you are not, of course? LOL!!

BoredOutOfMyMind 05-25-2007 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 127633)
I am a little confused as to what you mean by "Nashville" here. Can you claify?
I always thought it was Madison Avenue and Rodeo Drive that drove the culture. Not Costa Mesa and Nashville.

:didimiss

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 127689)
But you would say the same thing about my pastor and church because it is PCI in doctrine.

I just don't like everybody who doesnt' beleive just like you do being lumped together.

There is so much difference between an L.H. Hardwick and a Steve Munsey they are on opposite ends of the earth!
You would agree that the Trinity is False Doctrine?

CC1 05-25-2007 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind (Post 127704)
I always thought it was Madison Avenue and Rodeo Drive that drove the culture. Not Costa Mesa and Nashville.

:didimiss
LOL. I still wish he would answer my question so we could see in fact what he was thinking.

Other than Carrie Underwood Country Music is in such decline sales wise and popularity wise that I would be shocked to see Nashville listed in the context of driving popular culture.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127706)
You would agree that the Trinity is False Doctrine?
Would you agree that extrabiblical holiness dress standards is false doctrine??? .... once again .... perspective.

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:14 PM
There may be a myriad of beliefs concerning standards in Pentecostal Apostolics but they for the most part believe in the Book of Acts Salvation Message and the Oneness of God...

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127710)
Would you agree that extrabiblical holiness dress standards is false doctrine??? .... once again .... perspective.
But there is scripture to support Standards... and even difference's of Standards..... but there is NO scripture to support the Trinitarian Doctrine and a repentance only salvation message...

do you agree??

SDG 05-25-2007 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127640)
No but it is one aspect of the triangle I hate to see...

It is suspect... but it is their choice...and we have our own issues.. but that being said... Truth is STILL truth... Doctrine is STILL Doctrine..

They have given up that in my opinion when they are raising money for a false hope that lulls folks into thinking their saved....
Is this about propogating false doctrine or lulling folks into thinking they are saved ?... can one be saved and believe something that is doctinally unsound ...

Rev R ... are claiming that understanding the Oneness of God ... is SALVATIONAL?

Jack Shephard 05-25-2007 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127676)
Since you are a Oneness Apostolic do you feel it's okay Apostolic folks to go let's say TBN and raise money to Propagate the Trinitarian Doctrine?

btw... I am not Ultra-Conservative...
I wish it were different but since there is no Oneness Tv channel...

Tbn preaches Jesus....only the name TBN suggest their doctrine.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127714)
But there is scripture to support Standards... and even difference's of Standards..... but there is NO scripture to support the Trinitarian Doctrine and a repentance only salvation message...

do you agree??
Where have you been??? .... this forum ... has discussed these issues w/ scriptural support ad nauseum.

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127715)
Is this about propogating false doctrine or lulling folks into thinking they are saved ... can one be saved and believe something that is doctinally unsound ... Rev R ... are claiming that understanding the Oneness of God ... is SALVATIONAL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 127716)
I wish it were different but since there is no Oneness Tv channel...

Tbn preaches Jesus....only the name TBN suggest their doctrine.
They do not preach Baptism in Jesus Name.. and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with tongues essential..

Do you both believe that it's not essential for Salvation?

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127717)
Where have you been??? .... this forum ... has discussed these issues w/ scriptural support ad nauseum.
Dude.. if I took the time to read all your posts.. I would be a old man... :killinme

BoredOutOfMyMind 05-25-2007 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 127708)
LOL. I still wish he would answer my question so we could see in fact what he was thinking.

Other than Carrie Underwood Country Music is in such decline sales wise and popularity wise that I would be shocked to see Nashville listed in the context of driving popular culture.
Stoneface is a quiet as a statue. Seems he logged off to lurk.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127719)
They do not preach Baptism in Jesus Name.. and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with tongues essential..

Do you both believe that it's not essential for Salvation?
Tongues or Hell?
Formula or Hell?

RevRandy ... perhaps you need to visit Mount CAF.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127722)
Dude.. if I took the time to read all your posts.. I would be a old man... :killinme
AND TODAY I START A 3 MONTH SUMMER VACATION .... I will be at 10,000 by July .....

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127725)
Tongues or Hell?
Formula or Hell?

RevRandy ... perhaps you need to visit Mount CAF.
Do you believe they are essential?

Yes or No??

BoredOutOfMyMind 05-25-2007 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127725)
Tongues or Hell?
Formula or Hell?

RevRandy ... perhaps you need to visit Mount CAF.
Closed for repairs last I heard. :bubble

Jack Shephard 05-25-2007 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127719)
They do not preach Baptism in Jesus Name.. and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with tongues essential..

Do you both believe that it's not essential for Salvation?
They do not dissallow the talk of Jesus name baptisim. If so Td Jakes and Noel Jones would not be on there.

Salvation is not something you can obatin here. Salvation is something obatined once you arrive in heaven. It is not like having a stamp in your passport to go to India. There is a lot more that go into being "saved" than what Acts 2:38 says. I believe you are forgiven when you repent and the spirit begans to enter your soul it is complete when you are baptized in the spirit. Procees is complete.

BoredOutOfMyMind 05-25-2007 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127737)
Do you believe they are essential?

Yes or No??
Needs a simple answer, not what TBN believes.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 127739)
They do not dissallow the talk of Jesus name baptisim. If so Td Jakes and Noel Jones would not be on there.

Salvation is not something you can obatin here. Salvation is something obatined once you arrive in heaven. It is not like having a stamp in your passport to go to India. There is a lot more that go into being "saved" than what Acts 2:38 says. I believe you are forgiven when you repent and the spirit begans to enter your soul it is complete when you are baptized in the spirit. Procees is complete.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127737)
Do you believe they are essential?

Yes or No??
Here we go again .... :bubble

BoredOutOfMyMind 05-25-2007 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127742)
Here we go again .... :bubble
Still not a direct answer to a direct question. :sshhh

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 127739)
They do not dissallow the talk of Jesus name baptisim. If so Td Jakes and Noel Jones would not be on there.

Salvation is not something you can obatin here. Salvation is something obatined once you arrive in heaven. It is not like having a stamp in your passport to go to India. There is a lot more that go into being "saved" than what Acts 2:38 says. I believe you are forgiven when you repent and the spirit begans to enter your soul it is complete when you are baptized in the spirit. Procees is complete.
True.. but the Power comes after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you...Here! ... not heaven...

Unless your born of the Water and the of the Spirit.. you cannot enter the kingdom of God... If you not in the Kingdom of God... how will get to the Kingdom of Heaven??

And yes there is much more to being saved than Acts 2..

JTULL.. what are you defending here??

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:27 PM
Dan..

I think your afraid to answer because you complicate it too much....

because you can't answer it... you know the truth.. but it kills you to agree

with the UPC...:)

Charlie Brown 05-25-2007 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 127677)
I was trying to figure out how the city of Nashville got lumped in there with TBN.

There are many exUPCer's / exApostolics who have not gone that road of the "Prosperity Message". My church and pastor are one of them.

The ones that do go that route tend to get a lot of attention because of their antics. I have related how I stumbled across a Christian TV telethon being hosted by a former UPC pastor a couple of years ago and how shameful his appeal to the elderly and poor was. I was so full of rightous indignation I was almost shaking and had trouble going to sleep that night. That man is going to answer to God for the perversion of the Gospel I witnessed him put forth that night. It was as if Christianity was a get rich scheme rather than the restoration of creation to the Creator.
Maybe he means the ex-apostolics that live in Nashville, and sing on TBN?

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:28 PM
btw.. I am enjoying this conversation...:thumbsup

CC1 05-25-2007 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brown (Post 127747)
Maybe he means the ex-apostolics that live in Nashville, and sing on TBN?
Then I guess it is a good thing that Vicki moved to Baton Rouge about a year ago!!! LOL

Jack Shephard 05-25-2007 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127745)
True.. but the Power comes after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you...Here! ... not heaven...

Unless your born of the Water and the of the Spirit.. you cannot enter the kingdom of God... If you not in the Kingdom of God... how will get to the Kingdom of Heaven??

And yes there is much more to being saved than Acts 2..

JTULL.. what are you defending here??
The issue at had was not when the power arrives. You asked if I thought it essential. Of course you have be born again. But have you really looked into the part where it says "born of the water?" You may see something different than what you thought. Look at the root. But you do agree that the spirit begans to enter your life when you repent. You got some of the spirit in you then.....you are born of the spirit and tjen filled with the spirit.

I am defending people that you see as cashing in as to really selling out to the Lord.

Charlie Brown 05-25-2007 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 127739)
They do not dissallow the talk of Jesus name baptisim. If so Td Jakes and Noel Jones would not be on there.

Salvation is not something you can obatin here. Salvation is something obatined once you arrive in heaven. It is not like having a stamp in your passport to go to India. There is a lot more that go into being "saved" than what Acts 2:38 says. I believe you are forgiven when you repent and the spirit begans to enter your soul it is complete when you are baptized in the spirit. Procees is complete.
Wrong friend,

We receive the earnest, or deposit, of our inheritance (eternal life) here on this earth. It is called the baptism of the Holy Ghost. So while our salvation is completed at his coming when he fully redeems his purchased posession, we are altogether His when he seals us.

SDG 05-25-2007 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind (Post 127743)
Still not a direct answer to a direct question. :sshhh
BOOM ARE YOU SERIOUS ????

but I will answer ... since WE'VE ONLY had this discussed maybe 3413 times

1. I believe that baptism is properly administered in Jesus name ... it is not the incantation of the name that saves us but it speaks to the authority and power given to those who call upon his name.

I know that my PAJC brethren have slew of beliefs on this issue ... such as the the blood is applied only at the mention of the name by the baptizer ...

2. We receive God's spirit at repentance ... it is what being born of God or regenerated means ... the baptism of the Holy Ghost ... being immersed in God's Spirit ...which can be evidenced by speaking in other tongues .... is not a hurdle to attaining salvation but a gift from God .... I reject the tongues or hell doctrine.

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 127754)
The issue at had was not when the power arrives. You asked if I thought it essential. Of course you have be born again. But have you really looked into the part where it says "born of the water?" You may see something different than what you thought. Look at the root. But you do agree that the spirit begans to enter your life when you repent. You got some of the spirit in you then.....you are born of the spirit and tjen filled with the spirit.

I am defending people that you see as cashing in as to really selling out to the Lord.
Are you trying to explain it as the human birthing experiance of the Womb?

revrandy 05-25-2007 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127757)
BOOM ARE YOU SERIOUS ????

but I will answer ... since WE'VE ONLY had this discussed maybe 3413 times

1. I believe that baptism is properly administered in Jesus name ... it is not the incantation of the name that saves us but it speaks to the authority and power given to those who call upon his name.

I know that my PAJC brethren have slew of beliefs on this issue ... such as the the blood is applied only at the mention of the name by the baptizer ...

2. We receive God's spirit at repentance ... it is what being born of God or regenerated means ... the baptism of the Holy Ghost ... being immersed in God's Spirit ...which can be evidenced by speaking in other tongues .... is not a hurdle to attaining salvation but a gift from God .... I reject the tongues or hell doctrine.

Speaking in Tongues altogether?

Charlie Brown 05-25-2007 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 127757)
BOOM ARE YOU SERIOUS ????

but I will answer ... since WE'VE ONLY had this discussed maybe 3413 times

1. I believe that baptism is properly administered in Jesus name ... it is not the incantation of the name that saves us but it speaks to the authority and power given to those who call upon his name.

I know that my PAJC brethren have slew of beliefs on this issue ... such as the the blood is applied only at the mention of the name by the baptizer ...

2. We receive God's spirit at repentance ... it is what being born of God or regenerated means ... the baptism of the Holy Ghost ... being immersed in God's Spirit ...which can be evidenced by speaking in other tongues .... is not a hurdle to attaining salvation but a gift from God .... I reject the tongues or hell doctrine.

Baptist doctrine

SDG 05-25-2007 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy (Post 127745)
True.. but the Power comes after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you...Here! ... not heaven...

Unless your born of the Water and the of the Spirit.. you cannot enter the kingdom of God... If you not in the Kingdom of God... how will get to the Kingdom of Heaven??

And yes there is much more to being saved than Acts 2..

JTULL.. what are you defending here??
Looks like RevRandy just woke up to the fact that SOTERIOLOGY isn't viewed the same by all Apostolics.


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