Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

:largehalo

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

:heeheehee

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

Wow...being inspired and having content that dealt with issues in Paul's day are not contradictory.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

So should we assume you reject the bible as inspired?

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

so if Paul's content was cultural and does not apply today, then using father and son instead of creator and redeemer could be cultural also.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

That it could be is irrelevent. You are confusing interpretation with changing what the bible says

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

i'm not saying the bible isn't inspired. but i'm not a fundamentalist that thinks it is infallible and i think that much of its' content is cultural that doesn't apply to all times and all circumstances. we can find truth in other writings and cultures. no need for a closed canon.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

I know, but the reasoning behind the change you are referring to is similar to what I have described. As I said earlier, there is a trend among pagan women to refer to God as a woman. The changing of scriptures in the way that you are describing, in my opinion, is a step in that direction. If someone is reading that version of the bible, are they going to pray to the creator, baptise in the redeemer and pray to be filled with the sustainer? Very generic, and reminds me of the early Catholic church melding together pagan symbolism and practices with Christianity so as not to offend. Or was there a different agenda? I am sure that there are those with reasons for wanting this change that are entirely different than the reasons you have described, but they are not going to be discussing those agendas openly in this kind of setting. Names matter. Scripture matters. Otherwise everything is relative and we don't need to stand for anything unless if suits us.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

You sound pretty sure it's not.

But let me point out that God created Adam first not Eve. He created a man. No that was not cultural since no humans existed

Was it a cultural thing to refer to gods as "father" only? No. There were many female goddesses.

As I said, God identified Himself as "Father".

Despite priestesses and Queens ruling nations in the culture of the day, God declared the priest to be a male and the king to be a male.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

That IS a gender change, from masculine to neuter

BTW it looses it's paternal and parental meaning. No Father to child relationship for us. It makes little sense

It also eliminates any idea that Jesus is the Son Of God...
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Really? To be consistent we'd have to pervert both words to Creator. Is that really what Jesus meant?

We can no longer cry "Abba!" because of the feminists and their liberal supporters.

Inheriting the Father's kingdom loses meaning

Maybe some liberal can demand "If Jesus can't have a Father, why should anyone else? Let's remove any and all mention of fathers and mothers"...

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"

Loses it's meaning

2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."

Loses it's meaning

Gal 4:2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.
Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
Gal 4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Loses it's meaning

Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

Loses it's meaning

Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?

Loses it's meaning

Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Etc

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

I wanted to say something along those lines, Praxeas. But I don't know my bible well enough to provide the scripture you just did, and I think you explained it in great depth. My thoughts were that it is like making God a eunuch, but then I thought that eunuchs are still male. This is taking it further, and taking away the gender identity altogether.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

I don't know a single woman that is bothered by Father.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

I do... but they are women who have been abused by fathers or father figures. Many of them also reject the idea of God as a father. They need healing. They don't need to have the bible changed to enable them to accept it. They need to be transformed and have a revelation of the Father's love.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

Exactly.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

i haven't read the inclusive bible so i don't know how any changes would effect context. i was mainly referring to changing speech instead of scripture, but would like to see the scripture changes for myself. anyways, thought some women might be interested in this topic and the options available. i do agree that objective truth is an issue. who decides what is truth? on what grounds are these assertions made? is truth relative to individual subjectivity or absolute? would like to read a christian apologist tackle this issue in light of the claims of philosophy.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

What claims of philosophy?

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

i haven't read a lot of philosophy, but the little i know is that it mainly deals with epistemology(knowledge) and metaphysics(spirituality). under epistemology, some philosophers taught we have innate knowledge, others later taught we only know what we experience as individuals. i believe post modernism teaches that all knowledge is relative to the individual and influenced by community and culture. i really haven't studied that deep. i think this book might address some of these issues. click "look inside" to see table of contents.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Opinion...=ITNJGYXKEZZ38

Epistemology (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nk-new.svg.pngi/ɨˌpɪstɨˈmɒlədʒi/ from Greek ἐπιστήμη - epistēmē, meaning "knowledge, understanding", and λόγος - logos, meaning "study of") is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope of knowledge.[1][2] It questions what knowledge is, how it is acquired, and the possible extent to which a given subject or entity can be known.
Much of the debate in this field has focused on analyzing the nature of knowledge and how it relates to connected notions such as truth, belief, and justification.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

Philosophy is a broad topic, what is "it" what does Philosophy have to do with the topic? Can you be specific ?

I know what philosophy is I don't know what you are talking about though with regards to the topic

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

when I mentioned the claims of philosophy I was referring to Jen's post about "scripture matters. truth matters". I was just saying that I was like to read a book from a christian apologist that covers the issue of the truth of christianity in light of the claims of philosophy that say that truth or knowledge is relative to the individual and shaped by community and culture or only learned from experience. How do we know the bible is true beyond it's claims? (sounds like a good thread)

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

How can Philosophy say Truth is relative? That sounds unlike Philosophy which is about discovering truths.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

you must not be that familiar with philosophy. there were many secular and atheist philosophers. some pantheists and some christian. like i said before, most dealt with how we know things to be true so they were as skeptical of religion as scientists. in fact i believe that philosophy progressed as science progressed. the first philosophers were scientists, but with the enlightenment and the reformation, religion was undermined and secularism entailed. philosophers were the thinkers riding the tide of science and secularism. you need to checkout post modernism as to the relativity of truth. the modern age started with science and we are now in the post modern age with regards to philosophy. that is why we have the emergent movement in christianity. a response to post modernism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

Amazing, many of the problems that came into the church were brought in by philosphers, now we should read their writings to better apply the Bible to society today?

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

The statement or argument that '' THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH" is an easy argument to refute all that a person must do is don't respond by saying "IS THAT TRUE". If truth is not absolute or relative then we can never know it. Therefore the absolute statement about truth not being absolute is self defeating.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

The book I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH TO BE AN ATHEIST going into depth on this topic an is very good.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

thanks for the recommendation luke, i'll check it out.

Re: Inclusive Bible Laguage?
 

Wow I had a lot of typos here lol.