Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I want to get into this thread so bad but I just don't have the time. Maybe I can post tonight.

:sad:sad:sad

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Come on in delta

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

For someone to have a proper and normative birth experience a number of things need to happen, repentance, faith, baptism and the Spirit.

Each of those things are significant and bring about transformation in some degree, so we do never want to undermine or play down the significance of what happens in each part or experience. Our role as spiritual midwifes is to help people have the greatest and healthiest birth experience that they can have.

Repentance and Faith towards God isn't regeneration, Justification by God doesn't happen at the reception of the spirit, Union with Christ only happens at baptism, etc. That is why it is so vital that we get every part.

The reason why people have such significant change at each of those parts in that in and of themselves alone they are powerful encounters that will change any life.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Water! Every scholar even those that are a bit touched believe that it is water.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Having had extensive jail ministry experience, let me say this! Less than 4-5% are really serious.

For some it is something to pass the time!

For others, they want to look good for their Probation Officer or parole board.

The test for many is what are they willing to give to live for God. That has always been a catylist of whether they were going to stay in a religious program.

Most are in there because their selfishness pushed them to crime! If theyhave some true repentance they will begin to shed that selfishness and that only happens through sacrifice. In the prison system that is few and far between. They like salvation, as long as it does not cost them a thing!

A good lesson for a session, possibly somewhere down the road is John 6.

Just my input!

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

So no holyghost and speaking in tongues as evidence...

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Could you elaborate further?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

where I go to church you have to have the holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved LOL I really myself do not believe this. Plus bro Sam on here says there is a holyghost baptism so thats why I ask the question above which baptism in romans 6:4....

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Obviously, Keith you have retained the Water and Spirit message ... even now ... which I believes still hinders your view of the entire Body of Christ ...

After reading your statement I can only infer that somehow only those who have gone through the birth process properly are the MOST HEALTHY... the others are spiritually defective?

Are you suggesting a person filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit ... but has not been "unified w/ Christ" through a properly administered baptism, is not dressed with all of Christ????

I am all for making a parallel with natural birth when we speak of our spiritual birth ... Christ did ....but since when is the baby the catalyst ...? Where does God call us mid-wives?

Max Lucado makes a great point when he says:

Born again. Birth, by definition, is a passive act. The enwombed child contributes nothing to the delivery. Postpartum celebrations applaud the work of the mother. No one lionizes the infant. (“Great work there, little one.”) No, give the tyke a pacifier not a medal. Mom deserves the gold. She exerts the effort. She pushes, agonizes, and delivers.

When my niece bore her first child, she invited her brother and mother to stand in the delivery room. After witnessing three hours of pushing, when the baby finally crowned, my nephew turned to his mom and said, “I’m sorry for every time I talked back to you.”

The mother pays the price of birth. She doesn’t enlist the child’s assistance or solicit his or her advice. Why would she? The baby can’t even take a breath without umbilical help, much less navigate a path into new life. Nor, Jesus is saying, can we. Spiritual rebirthing requires a capable parent, not an able infant.



Who is this parent? Check the strategically selected word again. The Greek language offers two choices for again:

• 1. Palin, which means a repetition of an act; to redo what was done earlier

• 2. Anothen, which also depicts a repeated action, but requires the original source to repeat it. It means “from above, from a higher place, things which come from heaven or God.” In other words, the one who did the work the first time does it again. This is the word Jesus chose.

The difference between the two terms is the difference between a painting by da Vinci and one by me. Suppose you and I are standing in the Louvre, admiring the famous Mona Lisa. Inspired by the work, I produce an easel and canvas and announce, “I’m going to paint this beautiful portrait again.”

And I do! Right there in the Salle des Etats, I brandish my palette and flurry my brush and re-create the Mona Lisa. Alas, Lucado is no Leonardo. Ms. Lisa has a Picassoesque imbalance to her—crooked nose and one eye higher than the other. Technically, however, I keep my pledge and paint the Mona Lisa again.


Jesus means something else. He employs the second Greek term, calling for the action of the original source. He uses the word anothen, which, if honored in the Paris gallery, would require da Vinci’s presence. Anothen excludes:

• Latter-day replicas.

• Second-generation attempts.

• Well-meaning imitations.

He who did it first must do it again. The original creator recreates his creation. This is the act that Jesus describes.

• Born: God exerts the effort.

• Again: God restores the beauty.

We don’t try again. We need, not the muscle of self, but a miracle of God.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I don't make that distinction, I do believe the HG to be essential part of the New Birth, I also believe the HG is evidenced in scripture (Acts) by tongues, estatic praise and prophecy.

I do feel that to know the command to be baptized and to refuse is unbelief and thus according Mark 16 a judgment issue.

Keep in mind salvation is a broad term, entrance into kingdom life, entrance into heaven, salvation or deliverance from the body of sins, and bring in new life by conquering the sin nature etc.