I love my trini friends but I could never regularly attend a trini church.
The oneness revelation is too deep inside me, I love them but there are some things deep in my heart of hearts.
CC1 , I trust your family is doing ok ?

IN other words....just a SONG and a DANCE!! :hypercoffee

any discussion about workable formulas places the application of faith in the spirit of the guy ABOVE the water and not the person in the water.

For that reason, I think any discussion of the formula is evidence of a ritual transaction (check the box) RATHER than an individual's following of what they have seen/heard from God's word (faith) that has been provided for them to escape the body of sin.

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. [Act 2:21]

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. [Acts 22:16]

The variations in water baptism among "Oneness" folks are almost endless. I've seen those who baptize in the name of the LJC, JC, J , LJ and L (the latter says Jesus Christ is too holy to speak, so they just say "Lord"). There are those who hold the candidate under water while the "ceremony" is spoken, and there are those who baptize face forward. Some baptize only in running water (a creek or river), and I have met some who believe one has to travel to Israel to be baptized in the River of Jordan. And then there are those who do not baptize at all.

I find it strange that over all of these centuries, water baptism is even questioned at all. Its funny that it was a question about water baptism that began the split in the church at Corinth and here we are still addressing the issue. Which, isn't an issue at all. To me, Peter settled the issue on the Day of Pentecost. I find no need to add anything to what Peter said. or take anything from it. It is Jesus who remits our sin. Its in Him that we live, move and have our being.

OneAccord,
by your understanding of the scriptures...
whose faith, in what, accomplishes the efficacy of water baptism to cut away the body of sin?

Well, if I understand your question correctly, it is the faith of the hearer in the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that "cuts away the body of sin". Throughout the Scriptures we find reference after reference to the role of faith in removing us from sin. Without faith baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ would be pointless.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

...and this is my understanding as well.

this is why I marvel at the endless "what if" conditions applied to the faciliator or the formula in the water baptism transformation (root word; 'bapto').

I am very sad for the countless number of 'obedient' saints who place their hope in the recitation of specific words spoken by a faciliator and make no real query of the Spirit concerning those who come to the waters of baptism.

Is there any deliverance from the body of sin by simply being an obedient widget on a production line because of following the instruction of the line operator? (rhetorical question only).

thanks for the reply.

PS: I think this disconnect involving whose faith is in operation, is what has left so many apostolics seeing water baptism as an outward sign of inward change; strictly an obedience to a command. Why? JUST BECAUSE.

I bet it's going to be really embarrassing to folks who realize they missed heaven because they weren't baptized in Jesus name. And all because they thought baptism was out-dated or weren't willing to be inconvenienced for two or three minutes.

Even Naaman had the "embarrassing inconvenience" of dipping seven times in a dirty River Jordan. Yet his simple obedience resulted in his complete wholeness. If he had refused, he would have left a leper.

It may not to them, but to people who believe the Bible way of salvation it matters a lot.

Now Lost, you know that all that typology makes them crazy (I quote):shockamoo