Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

That's not the problem. The 3 step plan is unique in its logical conclusion. The problem is it puts godly people in hell whose lives have changed and who are living for the Lord. :D

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Alot of people of all races and faiths have really good people. So why would it be any different from someone who simply says I agree with this andstill be a good person? Being a good person and following a philosophy does not save you. Many people of all religions have had experience of change for a higher purpose and for the good of man and set aside many things. People who justify truth by numbers due to XYZ belief makes ABC good person not saved is unbelievable. Also please define living for the Lord. What by human wisdom? What justifies you "living for the Lord" to negate scripture.

All I need to know is you deny baptism is for remission of sins and when the atonement of Christ is realized. To me that shows me how far you have had to go in your logic. Few things will I say are hardcore doctrine and I will not make exceptions to and baptism is one of them. You really have to do a lot of negating of scripture and it ususally is due to other doctrines that influence this. All doctrine have a vien of reasoning and most that are against baptism in that way usually are follow the same course of false doctrine.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

We are not talking about good moral people here who have no acquaintance with Jesus. We are talking about people who were sinners, people who became convicted and drawn by the Holy Spirit, and after hearing about His death on the cross, turned to the Lord in faith and repentance and asked Jesus Christ to come into their lives. When they did that, something happened. Their life was radically changed. We one-steppers would call that salvation or conversion or a born again experience. Three-steppers would call it a good start but not near enough to save them. Other three-steppers would call it deception or a work of satan because it was not followed by water baptism and the Holy Ghost Baptism. Some of those folks that I am speaking of even went on and received the Holy Ghost Baptism, but because they did not get baptized in water "properly" three steppers had to do something with them so they react in various ways. Some say they still aren't saved because they haven't completed the "three steps." Others say they are on their way to hell because their sins haven't been forgiven/remitted/washed away. Others say they did not receive the "real" Holy Ghost. Meanwhile these theoretical people continue on, loving the Lord, serving the Lord, exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Spirit, etc. oblivious to the fact that they are on their way to hell because they haven't completed the three steps properly.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Very good Sam and Mow. I appreciate your posts here.

I cannot say my own experience differs from yours. While I know some wonderful OP Christian people, I know many who exemplify Christian living and show the love of Christ who are not Oneness Pentecostal at all. I count them as nothing less then brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Listen very closely: I do NOT believe in "Easy Believism" which basically states that all you have to do is say a prayer and you're saved. I believe in genuine repentance. If one has not repented and surrendered their life to Jesus Christ, then I don't care how many times they were baptized, even in Jesus' name or how often they speak in tongues.....no repentance, no salvation.

I have never negated baptism. I believe that the scripture commands baptism and everyone who truly repents and is justified is to be baptized in obedience to scripture. We're having 4 get baptized this morning in response to last Sunday's message. I always baptize in Jesus name.

Sam hit it right on the head. We're not talking about GOOD people. We're talking about GODLY people who have given their lives to Jesus Christ and many of them speak with tongues and have received the HGB and live for God.

We're not talking about "spiritual" people who have had some type of awakening or spiritual experience. We're talking about people who have had an encounter with the Almighty and are as obedient as they know to be.

That is a far cry from someone who blatantly rejects God's word. :D

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

I know many wonderful people that are honest and kind and great neighbors and family and I appreciate them however to be a brother or sister you MUST be born again Jn.3:5 & Acts 2:38. NO one is in the church without a New Father that comes from a new birth. Salvation is NOT by works but by birth.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Amen.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

amen...

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Sounds like you would agree with this ad:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2009905190380

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

But those Christians who do accept John 3:5 as do we, yet have arrived at a somewhat different interpretation
of the same, I will not be quick to judge them lest God will also quickly judge me.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

While I personally am what is called here a 3 stepper...I am thankful for those that walk in any light they see for I know that light can shine birghter and brighter...no one was born knowing truth ...
and as far as judging I leave that up to God...I preach what I feel it takes to be saved...HE and HE alone decides who will be saved...I pray that if I have failed that His mercy will be shown to me on that great day...I want to walk softly in his presence and find His favor.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

We're not talking about people who simply have a change of life. We're not talking about people who live a clean life. We're talking about people who have surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ, sincerely, honestly and wholeheartedly. We're talking about people who love God and His word. We're talking about people who have been baptized (in the titles) and received the HGB and people who have been baptized in Jesus' name and who have not yet spoken in tongues.

We're not talking about people who don't believe there is a God. :D

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Hey, I agree with that ad. One does not need God to be good. There are plenty of good people. One can be good and not be saved. :D

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

So, there will be good people burning in hell? Sounds like your argument against the 3-step might apply to the 1-step, as well.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

And do the Mormons, JWs, Catholics, sounds like Carlton Pearson to me. Everyone is saved if they do what they feel is right.
Maybe 9 inches is really a foot?
Maybe 12 oz. is really a pound?
Who said it took 12 inches to make a foot or 16 oz to make a pound?
They must have been real dogmatic.:thumbsup

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Repentance

Repentance is one of the first principles of the gospel and is essential to our temporal and eternal happiness. It is much more than just acknowledging wrongdoings. It is a change of mind and heart that gives us a fresh view about God, about ourselves, and about the world. It includes turning away from sin and turning to God for forgiveness. It is motivated by love for God and the sincere desire to obey His commandments.

Do u have a problem with this?

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

If you're in hell you're not good. All goodness comes from our heavenly father which is from above. Man is inherently sinful. Jesus told the ruler..."why do you call me good?"

The only ones who will dwell with Christ in His eternal Kingdom are those who have received and accepted His work on our behalf.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Repentance is a gift from God. It is His goodness that leads us to repentance. Without the Holy Spirit convicting our hearts, we would not even understand our need to repent.


Romans 2:4 (New International Version)
4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

John 16:8
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Absolutely! :D

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Repentance ALONE is as useless as baptism ALONE NEITHER alone will save. ONLY the new birth of water & the Spirit as preached by Peter at Pentecost will save today.

How many inches are in YOUR foot?

If a person is genuinely sincere and even weep some when they proclaim 7 inches is a foot are they correct?
When a person is ALMOST right they are surely wrong.

YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Oh no. Any who do not accept Jesus as God and the only mediator have additional issues. There is no way outside of Christ. He is the cornerstone of the Christian faith.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

I've only read the last few posts on this thread, but I have a question concerning the 3 step position and this verse: "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

At what point is one born of the Spirit ("from above"), as relating to this verse?


I know some see folks taking on the grooms name at baptism. Is it possible to "carry" the groom's name("married to Him") if you have yet to receive His spirit?

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Someone contact Carlton and tell him he has some believers over here.:thumbsup

They have 7 inch 1 foot rulers.

And 12 oz. pounds on their scales great for diets.:gotcha:thumbsup:ursofunny

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Hmm. I guess I'm about 10 feet tall, and 152 lbs. Or did I get one of those backwards? :lol

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

You a zero-stepper now? :toofunny

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Even One steppers here obeyed that command

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

So what you are saying is that if you follow these three steps even without faith in Christ you are saved? I don't think so. The Gospel is not about what we do for Him, it's about what He did for us!

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

There is no truth outside of Christ. You cannot serve God without Jesus. YOur argument is ignorantly fleshly. We are not born by the will of man, but of God. It is God who births us, we cannot give birth to ourselves.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

I am not sure.

I am realizing that my train of thought here basically means that Pharoah was created for a life of disobedience and pain, without him being able to effect any of his life's decisions at all.


This could lead someone to question the character of God.

God is beyond reproach-- just and true in everything He does and doesn't do.



But I still have a problem with stating that I am saved because I did _______.

The Grace of God covers me and my life throughout the whole process.
If it wasn't for His Grace, there would be no process in the first place.

So I am not saved because of works that I have done.
I am saved by faith, through His Grace.

Because of my faith, I obeyed the form of Gospel delivered to me (repentance and baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ). Yes I did these things, but only after I believed.

Abraham was called righteous because he believed. His faith caused him to move.

His situation foreshadows our own salvation today.

We believe and are made the righteousness of God because we believe.
As the righteousness of God, we do. We obey. We love.

Then HE fills us with His Spirit.

He sets His tongues of fire on those who seek after His Spirit.

We can and must repent.

We can and must be baptized.

God is the only who can fill us with His Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues-- so it is nothing that we can do there EXCEPT wait on God to keep His Promise as we seek His Promise.

And in all of this, God commands belief for salvation.
Our salvation is sealed at belief.

He confirms our salvation that has already taken place by allowing signs to follow those who believe. The signs are not salvation.


No more than circumcision alone makes a Jew a Jew.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

NOT a person that I know believes this your statement is absurd.

FAITH is what operates repentance,baptism, infilling.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

WOW!!! I have not followed the whole disscusion in total but I think I understand the original question. FIRST, Repentance is not a one time thing or a step, it is the reaction of rebuke. When peter preached the first sermon in Acts 2 what he said pricked them in their hearts. This was conviction brought about by the realization of their sin nature. When you realize that you are a sinner and you want to make it right you have to turn away from the sin nature, (REPENT). Please understand that repentance must happen daily in order to keep turning from the sin nature. That is what Paul meant when he said I die daily. SECOND, Water baptism is not a step as much as it is an act of faith, and yes the mode does matter. When you are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmision of sins, it's not the water that removes the sin it' s the name. Just as if I take a shower or bath, it's not the water that cleans me up it's the soap that removes the dirt and stink. THIRD, Recieving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Know this that the Holy Ghost is the spirit of God and without it would be impossible to have a intimate relationship with God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 (King James Version)

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Now about tongues, it is a gift from God and is used in the NT as evidence of recieving the Holy Ghost. But no where did the aposotles ever pray for some one to talk in tongues they prayed for them to recieve the Holy Ghost. I think the church has forgotten that the Holy Ghost comes first and then the gift of tongues. But also keep in mind it is evidence of the indwelling. Think about it this way, when you go to buy shoes do you have to ask for the tongues seperatly or do they come with the shoes? I hope this answered somebodys question. It is not about steps, it's about belief and faith. I believe I can drive a car and have faith that it will deliver me to my destination. But unless I (step one) get in the car, (step two) put the keys in the switch and turn it on, (step three) put the car in gear and drive to my destination, All the faith and verbal confession still leaves me sitting at home!

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Ok, let's talk about this. Where do you get the ideology that when Peter preached they turned from sin? The crowd he was preaching at were Judaizers who did not consider themselves sinners. Rather, they served God religiously according to the law. Peter's words (if you read in context) are dealing with Messiah coming and when Messiah comes, according to old covenant scriptures, they are to turn to him. This is what Peter is preaching. Don't get confused with a modern pentecostal altar service and think they had one in Acts 2. Peter told them "Messiah" has now come. His name is "Yeshua" and you need to follow him because He is the one God has sent.

You are 100 percent off base here. It is NOT someone calling a name over you that removes sin, it is the sacrificial atoning blood of CHRIST that removes sin. Baptism is what we do for Him because of what He has done for us. You have absolutely no biblical foundation to teach that a third person calling the name JESUS over you takes your sins away.

John the baptizer said..."behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."

You have completely taken this verse out of context. Faith is what brings us into relationship with God, not tongues.

No where scripturally will you find tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit indwelling. The fruit of the Spirit is the evidence of indwelling. Gal 5

Tongues are given for a sign. 1 Cor 12-14

A sign points you to the reality of what is. Tongues are not the Holy Spirit, but rather a sign that it does exist.

Friend, for your souls sake, find a church that serves love and actually teaches the bible. God bless.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Faith in what Elder? Baptism? self-worthlessness? tongues?

Herein lies the conflict. One must place their faith solely in Christ and His atoning work. You cannot believe baptism saves you, one must believe Christ is the savior.

One cannot believe tongues is the Holy Spirit, one must believe the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

See how easy it is to get off base? One must teach the truth sir.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

True.:thumbsup

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Argue with Acts 22:16 it is inspired you are NOT!

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Faith in the shed blood and Calvary's once for all sacrifice led me to repent, that SAME faith caused my sins to be remitted by His shed blood when I was baptized having his Name invoked over me and recieved the promise of His Spirit that was made available through Calvary by the SAME faith and that SAME faith is how I walk with HIM each day.

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

So, let me be clear...what you are saying is that if a person is not "baptized' in water having a second person invoke Jesus' name over him, his sins are not remitted?

Re: Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine
 

Ok let's see what it says...
Acts 22:16 (New International Version)

16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

be baptized and...wash away your sins calling upon his name. clearly calling on his name is the salvific action, not baptism.