Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Check out the part of her post I put in bold and then try again.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

That's every president, no just Obama. The IRS is a convoluted mess of a program that has ton of power that is unwarranted.[/QUOTE]

We agree!

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

So you say he lied? He didn't say single payer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY9...layer_embedded

03/24/2007 single payer before end of first administration

i KNEW YOU DIDN'T GET IT. Watch again. And again. It takes you many times to catch what he promises.

But he lies. He lied about Queens hospital and he may be lying now. flip flops are broken promises.

Even Gay Barney says they want single payer. He admits it may be difficult from the beginning.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Do you honestly want to know what the plan calls these "panels"?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

That's not what I was asking, and you would know that if you took the time to read to read the post.

She said "He said very recently that he never said he was for a one-payer system."

That was the part I put in bold. That is what we need the source on.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Not sure what you are trying to say here Twisp?

Obama did say he was a proponet of single payer system. He also recently denied saying that.

Are you saying that doesn't count because now he has changed his mind?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

This is the second time I have put it in bold and asked for the source for this. Not sure why this hard to understand.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I have heard it twice today on the radio. Try and find it on you tube.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Since you can't post a source that he denied ever being for a single payer system, we have to imagine it is more misinformation.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Well you imagine whatever suits you. I HEARD him more than once on two different stations say exactly what I told you. But it is obvious you don't want to hear the truth regarding Obama.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

If you heard it on multiple occasions, then I would imagine it wouldn't be too hard to pull an article somewhere, or a video.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

That's what I was thinking.

Someone who posts information should be able to back it up with a legitimate source or it's just drivel. JMHO.

And just for the record... I'm not an OBAMA fan! Quite the opposite. I just get so irritated at people posting stuff with no source to back up the info.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

The burden of proof shouldn't be left to those responding to the info--- but on those who post the info to start with...... JMHO.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY9...layer_embedded

Watch this again. You owe us an apology for lying. Obama owes america an apology for lying.

His white house Miss Information director is trying the same garbage. She is calling it "misinformation" when we say Obama has told us he was committed to single payer Federal insurance.

Obama can have sevaral claims out there that are contradictory. He doesn't care about truth.

End justifies the means. He can say anything he wants if it gets Him what He wants.

I am rather angry at the hard headed ness of his cult followers.

Pelozi calls out nazi's and no one has seen a single one.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Coadie, you are on a whole different planet than us. lol, that video has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Well I'm not sure how to post a radio program on here yet.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/1...out-obamacare/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...sia-mistake/2/

When Sawyer pressed him to say whether those practices would be enforced by law, he evaded the question.


essay arguing, in effect, for a eugenic attitude toward end-of-life treatment written by Peter Singer, a Princeton University “bio-ethicist” whose views are squarely in line with those of Posner and Oliver Wendell Holmes.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Man Denied Residency Over Son With Down Syndrome
SYDNEY, Australia (AP) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
The immigration department in Australia denied a badly-needed German doctor residency because his son "did not meet the health requirement."
AP

A German doctor hoping to gain permanent residency in Australia said Friday he will fight an immigration department decision denying his application because his son has Down syndrome. Bernhard Moeller came to Australia with his family two years ago to help fill a doctor shortage in a rural area of Victoria state.

His temporary work visa is valid until 2010, but his application for permanent residency was rejected this week. The immigration department said Moeller's 13-year-old son, Lukas, "did not meet the health requirement."

"A medical officer of the Commonwealth assessed that his son's existing medical condition was likely to result in a significant and ongoing cost to the Australian community," a departmental spokesman said in a statement issued Thursday by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

"This is not discrimination. A disability in itself is not grounds for failing the health requirement -- it is a question of the cost implications to the community," the statement said.

http://cbs5.com/health/doctor.denied....2.854029.html

"medical officer of the Commonwealth" that is their title for health panel or death panel.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

AMEN!..plus its not really even Constitutional for the gov't to take
money from our wages, {don't ask why/how I have some research some
where about this, can't remember all the facts presently, I've got
to reread it}!!!!
How the gov't gets away with sooo much is beyond me :foottap
It certainly is no longer a semblance of "by the people, for the people"
perhaps not even OF "the people"..some other DARK prescence is
behind all the deceit., and no its not "conspiracy" stuff either,
(lest someone thinks or says this) I haven't read any but two posts
of this thread so far., ain't got time to read 'em all at this time. :D
WAKE UP AMERICA!

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I'm telling you that ignore button works wonders. :thumbsup

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

IRs 17,000 pages of Tax code. Here "code" is substituted for "law".

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

WHISTLEBLOWER MAGAZINE
MEDICAL MURDER
Why Obamacare could result in the early deaths of millions of baby boomers

2009 WorldNetDaily

Imagine lying in some government-run hospital, hospice or nursing home many years from now. Imagine languishing unattended for days in soiled sheets, suffering from hunger and thirst, covered with bed sores, your flesh aboil with untreated infections. Imagine living in fear of resentful, underpaid health aides who take out their anger on you and abuse you. And imagine spending your final moments on earth in the company of a government health care worker with a syringe, who injects you with a lethal cocktail.

Do you find this hard to imagine? You should. In any civilized country, such things should not happen – ever. But President Obama’s health care proposals have the very real potential to turn this nightmare into a reality for many Americans, according to an in-depth investigation reported in the August edition of Whistleblower magazine, titled "MEDICAL MURDER: Why Obamacare could result in the early deaths of millions of baby boomers."

Especially vulnerable are the 80 million baby boomers born between 1946 and 1964. "If you belong to that group, take note," says Richard Poe, author of the August cover story. "Your generation has been targeted for a program of age-based medical rationing such as our country has never before experienced."

Adds Whistleblower Editor David Kupelian, "If this dire end-of-life scenario sounds too awful to be possible, that is only because the reality of Obamacare has not been sufficiently reported. For this is not a fantasy – it is what is already occurring in other 'civilized' nations, including Canada and Britain, that have adopted the same government-run system."

For instance, the cover story, "Medical Murder," documents how British seniors, under a government-run system, "are routinely denied treatment for cancer, heart disease and other deadly illnesses," many dying "in filthy, overcrowded hospitals or nursing homes, rife with pestilence, including the deadly, antibiotic-resistant superbugs." Numerous horror stories of needed medical care intentionally denied reveal the stark reality of government-run health care worldwide.

To a small degree, Obamacare's ominous implications are starting to leak out. Here's how columnist Charlotte Allen explained it recently in the Los Angeles Times:

In looking for a way to fund healthcare, Obama has set his eye on the oldest and sickest. You see, according to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, about 30 percent of Medicare spending – nearly $100 billion annually – goes to care for patients during their last year of life. What if there were no 'last year of life,' the president seems to be asking. ... [W]hy not save billions of dollars by killing off our own unproductive oldsters and terminal patients, or – since we aren't likely to do that outright in this, the 21st century – why not simply ensure that they die faster by denying them costly medical care? The savings could then subsidize care for the younger and healthier.

And for those who have been paying close attention, Obama himself has ever-so-gently hinted at his true intentions. At a town hall event in June televised by ABC News, Obama cited the case of his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who died on the eve of his election, suggesting one way to cut medical costs would be to stop expensive procedures on people about to die.

Families, Obama said, need better information so they don't approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

"Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller," the president offered.

Obama was slightly more explicit in a May 3 interview with the New York Times, when he said there ought to be a national "conversation" over whether "sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else's aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they're terminally ill is a sustainable model." Such decisions, added Obama, shouldn't be left to patients or their relatives, but to a "group" of "doctors, scientists, ethicists" who are not part of "normal political channels."

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Moreover, as "MEDICAL MURDER" reports, a bill being pushed hard by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate Finance Subcommittee on Health Care, will take from Congress all authority over federal health spending and decree that such decisions in the future would be made by a secretive committee of "experts" modeled after – are you ready? – the Federal Reserve Board.

You sure aren't hearing this from the media.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

"death Panel" When a patient is on a ventilator and feeding tube, someone decides to unplug life support. In the case of the new bill, it will be influenced elswhere. It is not quit correct to put the authority in the hands of a single person so they call it a panel.
"advanced care Planning associates" will work with other people and a life or death decision will be carried out. The deception is in the name. The deception is in who makes the decesion. the deception is in who tells the patient the decision can't be over ridden from the patient end.
The key for successfull detrimental manipulation is to declare that it was the patients idea and for the good of the suffering patient. Manipulate the patient to have them say they want to end it. After these killings, people have the audacity to say that is what the patient wanted.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

We'll begin on page 5 of this New York Times interview (4/14/09) with President nObama

Source

Note to the not-so-bright-Light ... this isn't an email, click on the source and read for yourself ... better yet, read the bill itself instead of whining and accusing people of lying about it. Some have read portions of the bill - and most of what's being reported IS in the bill.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

They obviously haven't even read the bill. The bill clearly BLOCKS FUNDING for any counseling by a doctor or anyone else concerning sucidie or physician assisted suicide.

Why don't some of you read the bill before you talk about things you don't understand.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

The interview I posted isn't about physician assisted suicide, Mike. There's a difference between what you're speaking of and what BHO is speaking of here. Read the statement again ... what IS the issue is that under his socialized healthcare, BHO's own grandmother may not have rec'd her hip replacement to improve quality of her life - just because she was soon to die.

That's the issue. Under BHO's plan there may well not be PAS (technically) ... instead he'll let the terminal patients rot away and die with no quality of life care.

But I digress ... Mike wears BHO undies, sleeps in "Yes We Can" sheets and drinks BHO koolaide (the red stuff) by the gallon. And Light ... well, he just hates anyone conservative or Republican...

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

There are no death panels IN the bill. The blog link that coadie provided clarified that point. Here it is again: http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...ath-panel.html

The blog includes an iPaper file of the entire article by Dr. Emanuel, Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions, which is a chilling little read.

If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).


From the blog:

"The next question is, whether Dr. Emanuel's proposal bears any connection to current Democratic proposals. There is no single Democratic proposal at this point, only a series of proposals and concepts. To that extent, Palin's comments properly are viewed as a warning shot not to move to Dr. Emanuel's concept of health care rationing based on societal worth, rather than a critique of a specific bill ready for vote."


"Certainly, no Democrat is proposing a "death panel," or withholding care to the young or infirm. To say such a thing would be political suicide.

But one interesting concept which is central to the concepts being discussed is the creation of a panel of "experts" to make the politically unpopular decisions on allocating health care resources. In a letter to the Senate, Barack Obama expressed support for such a commission:"

I am committed to working with the Congress to fully offset the cost of health care reform by reducing Medicare and Medicaid spending by another $200 to $300 billion over the next 10 years, and by enacting appropriate proposals to generate additional revenues. These savings will come not only by adopting new technologies and addressing the vastly different costs of care, but from going after the key drivers of skyrocketing health care costs, including unmanaged chronic diseases, duplicated tests, and unnecessary hospital readmissions.

To identify and achieve additional savings, I am also open to your ideas about giving special consideration to the recommendations of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), a commission created by a Republican Congress. Under this approach, MedPAC's recommendations on cost reductions would be adopted unless opposed by a joint resolution of the Congress. This is similar to a process that has been used effectively by a commission charged with closing military bases, and could be a valuable tool to help achieve health care reform in a fiscally responsible way."--B.O.




Palin's comment:

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society’ whether they are worthy of health care.”

Technically, Palin did not say that the health care reform bill contains "death panels", but was rather a statement against an overall mindset, which DOES have close connections with the white house and with those who are in charge of writing this bill.

However, I agree with the blogger--it would be political suicide for any Democrat to approve such an extreme measure, and as of yet, the health reform bill has nothing in it that resembles a "death panel." It is obvious, though, that on principle, Obama, his cronies and other Dems do support such committees, and the philosophy that people should be treated according to their overall value to society, and with their actual life expectancy in mind. (As opposed to a maximized, ideal number.)

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Something I want to remind folks of, IF they pass this bill as is, or even if they make admendments, they will over a period of time change it to what they wanted all along.

Look how our taxes have changed from what it was originally set out to be. IRS was to be voluntary, is it now?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

That's actually funny. I'll give you points for making me laugh on that one.

I'll get my picture with all of that stuff if you'll promise to take pictures of you in your Sarah Baracuda jammies, with your EIB Rush Limbaugh slippers and a copy of Glenn Beck's (Un) Common Sense. :thumbsup

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

And under the link you posted, he does not mention that the government will decide on end of life decisions. He talks about guidance, not determination. He says nothing about government decided end of life decisions unless you have a special monitor that lets you see sentences the rest of us can't see.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

He probably has experience dealing with the government and understands exactly what they really mean.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Mike what do you have against Rush, Beck and Hannity?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

They take part in the spreading of lies and half truths about everything that anyone outside of the Republican party supports. They are great at proprogating junk like this death panel mess that has no basis whatsoever.

The Kings of Misinformation is what I like to refer to them as. And yes I know they have their liberal counterparts like Colmbes and others.

Most talk radio in this country doesn't have any desire of actually discussing issues just their own liberal or conservative agendas. They don't help solve a single problem.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

:lol Not sure I'd want to see a pic of you in BHO undies. :ursofunny I'd settle for your autographed copies of BHO posters, his book and a pic of you two enjoying a cold one by the picnic table.

:thumbsup

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Mike it does have a basis. Wake up man!

I haven't seen any misinformation from them, but if you have any you can point out I would be glad to see it. As to the death panel, it is written in a way that it can be interpreted that way, PLUS knowing that Obama has included the author of the death panel, not sure he even thinks you need a panel, on his team, it is easy to see that 2 + 2 = 4.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Rush Limbaugh's always been a liar. I listened to him when I was in high school back in the 90's and didn't listen for over two weeks because of all the lies he told on the Clinton Administration. He's an embelisher and basically just the Howard Stern of Conservative talk radio.

Esther I respect your opinion but there is NO WAY a sane individual can come up with a death panel from legislation that BLOCKS FUNDING FOR ANY SESSION DISCUSSING SUICIDE OR ASSISTED SUICIDE. Is that hard to understand?

Anyone who believes the death panels bit is too far out in right field to even have an informed discussion with, IMO.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

The British single-payer bureaucrats arrived at the price of an additional year of life in the same way they decide how much health care all British people will get, through a formula called "quality-adjusted life years."

That means that if you're sick in Great Britain, government bureaucrats literally decide if your life is worth living and, if so, how much longer and at what cost.

If it's more than $45,000, you're out of luck.

In the highest levels of the Obama Administration there is a theory of how to ration health care that is troublingly reminiscent of the British system of "quality-adjusted life years."

Dr. Ezekial Emanuel is a key health care advisor to President Obama and the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Earlier this year, Dr. Emanuel wrote an article that advocated what he called "the complete lives system" as a method for rationing health care. You can read it here - http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...137-9/fulltext

The system advocated by Dr. Emanuel would allocate health care based on the government's perception of the societal worth of the patients. Accordingly, the very young and the very old would receive less care since the former have received less societal investment and the latter have less left to contribute.

"The Complete Lives System" would also consider the prognosis of the individual.

Quoting Dr. Emanuel: "A young person with a poor prognosis has had few life-years but lacks the potential to live a complete life. Considering prognosis forestalls the concern that disproportionately large amounts of resources will be directed to young people with poor prognosis."

When fully implemented, Dr. Emanuel's system, in his words, "produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated."

"Chances that are attenuated" is a nice way of saying the young and the old are considered less worthy of health care and, under this system, will get less.