Please.. from the guy that believes the Baptist are saved!!!

Define apostolic with scripture.

A christian is defined in scripture. A believer is defined in scripture. An apostolic is not defined in scripture.

Nice way to avoid the labelling.

My point exactly. Some pontificate about being apostolic and others chime in and tell them they aren't because of a definition. Not sure how you can tell someone they aren't something if even you can't define the term. This whole discussion is actually quite circular, IMO.

point? I didn't tell someone that he is or isn't apostolic.

Was not the thread about what people think apostolics are versus what self-described apostolics are?

Apostolic: See Dan.

No. But you implied it was useless to convince some folks around here. I was merely pointing out the other side of that coin.

Perhaps. But it seems to me that if no definition of "apostolic" is acceptable then we have circular reasoning.

The point to Dan is the same point I made to ogia. Anyone can say they are apostolic.

my definition of apostolic
 

one who believes in fulfilling John 3:5 and Acts 2:38, whether they believe it takes all three to be saved, or it is necessary to fulfill all three because you are already saved!

If they fulfill the plan they are Apostolic.

Everything else is subjective, as far as this guy is concerned!!

There is a lot of circular reasoning in religion. lol

Rev. Run made waves when he became a christian. His pastor calls himself an apostle. Rev. Run's pastor is on late night television offereing free prophecies to whomever calls in. I'm quite certain Rev. Run's pastor has not been baptized in Jesus name. Rev Run's pastor considers himself an apostolic. The definition of apostolic is based on speculation and through the prisms we want to use when defining apostolic.

what does that have to do with what I said?

I had to finish the post.. sometimes I hit enter too soon.

well.. he is not apostolic according to this guy!

But he is an apostle (Goes by Bishop Jordan I do believe) according to his definition. This problem happens often when people try to use subjective terms to identifie a work.

well... at least my definition includes conservative and liberal PAJC and PCI!! :bubble

Is that smoke you are blowing out your icon? SUch symbolism. LOL

smoke?? you mean the guys SHADOW???

For those about to rock, we salute you. Then we are going to bed it's after 2pm Eastern Time. I turned the tv channel to the catholic channel and now I'm nodding off real bad. I have to get up in 3-4 hours...

The icon I'm looking at in your post is spewing green stuff out like Linda Blair in the excorcist.

you are trippin!!

I will have to report: This goes along with the subject the thread began as...

During my 5 year period of getting out of Dodge [UPCI], I did visit many UPCI churches with friends or to see friends. When they chose threir text to shame/judge/blame me for my education, my lack of holding to the approved UPCI dress code...of course they turned me off and reminded me why I did not want to be a part of them any longer.

I will have to say that one very prominent preacher friend took a different approach; He spoke on how many of the dress standards were not a heaven or hell issue but they were there to identify one with a specific group of people. I was the target, and I heard EXACTLY what he was saying. Dress standards as mandated by many Apostolic churches are NOT heaven or hell issues and emphasis should not be placed on them. The thing that got me was this: I did NOT want to be identified in a retail store or a restaurant as one of them: You know, frizzy perms, jean skirts with bobby socks and tennis shoes, and RUDE...I hated to go in with an APOSTOLIC group that was demanding to the waitresses, let their children run around the tables without discipline, and the young people moving around until the waitress didn't know where to put the food, and then not leave a tip.

I DID NOT want to be identified with them. This Pastor did his best to win me back over and was totally perplexed why I did come back to a UPCI church in the area that was not his. The UPCI church I came back to accepted me like I was. They used me before I lined up to their platform standard and took many a hit for it. They didn't push me. They loved me.

Just thought I'd thorw this in there for those who wonder why they can't win who they consider 'backsliders' back to their assemblies. They know what they should and shouldn't do...they do not need these sermons tailored just for them in this way. The Pastor needs to preach what God lays on his heart and not be controlled by wanting to 'save' that person by preaching what they want them to hear. They need to be loved. That is the bottom line.

Blessings, Rhoni

Check out the previous post...people don't need shame/blame/and judgement...they get enough of it from the world. They need to know that God loves them and accepts them as they are. They need to know that any changes that need to be made they have the time and the relationship to God to work on these things without man's interference.

Just my humble opinion.

Blessings, Rhoni

Central to the spirit of the title of this thread, "What the World Sees as Apostolic," lifts the curtain of discussion to reveal every species of dancing spirits in full motion. It was my purpose to address some of these spirits with the Word of God rather than to address a specific scenario presented by the originator of this thread.

It is a crying shame that, if it be so, that the attentions of the world have been focused upon our FLESH and how it is displayed before the world instead of the LIGHT of Christ so exibited within us. If we are so insane as to exhibit before the world OUR FLESH with its adornments or the lack of it, as our LIGHT from a city set upon a hill, our present day Apostolic doctrine has DECEIVED us.

Yet, I know this sad state of affair is true, calling it "separation," while it is not separation at all but rather, it has become just another sub-set of worldliness, abeit, religious worldliness.

So, the dance of spirits continued as this discussion ensued. Again, I want to re-empahsize that our LIGHT will never be a display of FLESH, regardless of how it is, or is not adorned, but rather as the song says...

If I can help somebody as I travel 'long
If I can help somebody with a word or song
If I can show somebody when he's travlin' wrong
Then my living shall not be in vain

If collectively we can embrace THIS focus, we will then give God glory and the world will see Jesus (the light) in us as a bright city set upon a hill that cannot be moved. Otherwise, we will, under the guise of Apostolic Doctrine continue to focus the attentions of the world upon (unholy) FLESH by which the world is not impressed. They already have plenty of their own.

Regardless, I suspect the endless dance of many and varied species of spirits will continue to infinity...or at least, until Jesus says, "ENOUGH."

Tek has his Divine Flesh doctrine... while some have their unholy Flesh doctrine .... Elder ... I think you've coined a new phrase ....

Outstanding insights ....as always.

:highfive

I can find a scripture defining Christian, I could find a scripture defining believer, I could find a scripture defining sinner. I told the pastor I don't want to be labeled that cannot be found in the Bible.

That my friend is the heart of the matter.

It saddens me that people don't think of Jesus when they think of an apostolic. People don't even think of the apostles when they hear the word apostolic. I'm still trying to figure out how they are going to win people to Jesus when what is displayed isn't Biblical.

Yep, it's all about the outward ~

Aren't we a bit jaded? lol

Aerosmith???

I asked a person I became acquainted with about what he thought of Oneness Pentecostals in general and he said that they are mean, grouchy and don't smile, etc. etc. . Not making this up. He was in a business and said they were the hardest ones to deal with that he rather they do their business somewhere else. Is this sad or what? I'm OP, but not like that and he didn't think of me that way.

Exception rather than the rule!!

Yeah.. I just found another scripture where the Apostle Paul quoted a pagan. That is at least three instances that the holy writ was defiled by paganism.

Based on Biblical precedent, I figured I would take a little liberty and use contemporary pagans to illustrate biblical perceptions.

depends on who the OPs are. just telling you what apostolic meant to him.

I'm curious to know what your acquaintance apostolic means. The more stories we hear, the more the evidence will be documented people do not generally see Jesus in an apostolic.