Originally Posted by brad2723 (Post 92826)

Please clarify for me. First you say that "homosexual orientation, like heterosexual orientation, develops during childhood and is non-existant at birth." You then go on to say that the "God-designed" development is for females to desire males and visa versa. Are you saying, then, that orientation is not present at birth but develops later on? If so, are you suggesting that because it develops later on that it is somehow not genetically/naturally pre-determined?

Originally Posted by brad2723 (Post 92830)

The natural consequence of smoking is lung cancer. Does that make lung cancer sinful OR the consequence of something sinful? We can't judge everyone who has lung cancer simply because it is often the consequence of something that is considered to be wrong/sinful. Can we?

Originally Posted by PaPaDon (Post 92797)

Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.

EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.

I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.

This is my personal view of this matter.

Originally Posted by PaPaDon (Post 92797)

Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.

EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.

I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.

This is my personal view of this matter.

Originally Posted by brad2723 (Post 92849)

PaPaDon,

I don't know if you are married, have kids, grandkids, or what. If you do, may I ask, Did you chose to be attracted to your wife? Did you chose to fall in love with your wife? The choices you make regarding your wife and kids (again, assuming they exist) is influenced by your unchosen love and natural affection for them.

On a more specific and less philosophical level, did you chose your stature?; your foot size? your hairline? None of have directly chosen any of these attributes YET we make decisions based on their naturally progressive existence.

So it is with orientation. It is a naturally developing, God-given, human experience that is not determined by choice. What we as humans do choose, however, is how to physically respond to our natural psychological and emotional development.

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 92838)

Yes, I'm saying orientation is not present at birth and that it develops during childhood.

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 92845)

Is lung cancer a "natural" consequence of smoking? Just because many people who smoke do develop lung cancer does not make it a "natural" consequence.

No, what Romans 1 is saying is that all those other sins listed in Romans 1:26-32 came about as a result of humanity's first forays into idolatry. There is no such thing as "genetically predetermined orientation" and what the Bible refers to when referring to homosexuality is to thoughts and behaviors.

What we call "attraction" (whether to the opposite sex or to the same sex) is something I very narrowly define as the autonomic physiological and emotional response that we experience. Everything that occurs after the moment of the autonomic response (thoughts, lusts, actions) is a choice.

Originally Posted by PaPaDon (Post 92797)

Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.

EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.

I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.

This is my personal view of this matter.

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 92852)

Well, non-heterosexual orientations are not "naturally developing" but, instead, are aberrations that are contrary to God's created design.

Originally Posted by brad2723 (Post 92867)

From a scientific perspective, thougts and lusts are NOT autonomic responses but, rather, psychological responses which have the potential to elicit physiologic responses.