Apostolic Friends Forum - This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

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Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

My final thought on the matter:

One of the painful questions we occasionally ask in our staff meetings is, "If you weren't a Christian, would you become one based on what Christians say about God and based on the way they behave?" The answer is always the same. "Absolutely not."

When I say, "Behavior", I'm not talking about the Ted Haggard-type stuff, but the bumper-sticker, petition, protest, "stand-against-evil" culture of Christianity. Christians that fail don't bother me at all. I can relate to them. It's the Christians that act as if they never do fail, that bother me. I can't relate to them.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 866336)

What if God judged them? What should be the Christian response to those who are still alive and suffering? Pointing our fingers at them and saying "you deserved it!" or reaching out and considering that God may have kept these alive so that we could reach them in love and mercy for Him? For if it was indeed a judgment, those who are still alive should be the remnant that God hopes to save.

But what if God DIDN'T judge them? What if He is, right now, weeping over those who are calling on Him and still dying in the streets? Or what if He is weeping over our judgmentalism, and planning judgment on us instead? All our righteousness is as filthy rags before Him. Some of them may have practiced witchcraft or voodoo. There are many people in the US that are practicing these things too. There are many others in the US who are also corrupt.

If it were a judgment, let it be a call of repentance to all the world, not just one nation. If it wasn't a judgment, lets remember that by the measure we mete it will be meted to us again... if we as a nation condemn them, we as a nation may be condemned as well.

Maybe God would prefer we remove the beam from our eye before trying to get the mote out of our neighbor's.

In response, you wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther (Post 866357)

Why not just ask God if this is His judgment? Will it change anything in what we do? Should we not also ask Him, what His will is for us to do?

Esther, did you really read my post? It basically says that no matter what we believe the answer is, there are certain responses that we as Christians should have to the survivors.

Yes, we should ask what He wants us to do. I can pray and ask Him if he wants me to donate, and to what cause. I can ask Him if there are missionaries that I could support. I can ask if there are things I could do to help from right here in America... I can even ask if He'd like me to go. But I already know what He does NOT want... He doesn't want us sitting on the internet in our comfortable homes casting judgment, thinking we are any better, neither repenting nor reaching out to them ourselves.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

NoW, what version do your scripture quotes in your signature line come from?

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 866363)

NoW, what version do your scripture quotes in your signature line come from?

The original edition of the New Living Translation.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Yes, by all means, ask Jesus if he did it. If He says yes, then what? Wouldn't it be wrong to help the survivors? Shouldn't you just let Jesus take care of them, as He sees fit? Maybe the ones He spared are the "good" people of Haiti; if so, He'll provide for them. But maybe they, too, are evil people (and/or descendants of those evil people who made a pact with the devil); if so, He wants them to suffer, and if you help them, you would be going against His will.

Either way, you guys can just relax. Let us unbelievers provide relief. We don't know any better, so maybe God will have mercy on us.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther (Post 866356)

. . .

Is it cruel for a parent to tell their child you can't play in the street? OR is the love the parent has for the child to not get run over and killed or badly hurt?

Does that make the parent cruel? No. Neither is God a cruel God because He says no.

. . .

That is such a great analogy! I get it now! The earthquake in Haiti is just God's loving way of saying "no"!

Sigh.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

[QUOTE=Esther;866356]I totally agree with him. There is NO fruit of BO being a Christian. NONE. He even told foreign countries this nation is no longer a Christian nation. That is a lie. True there are many that do not serve God, but I still believe this is a Christian nation.[/COLOR]

Exactly!

A true christian should know the answer to that question. PRAYER. Ask God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 865404)

If it's true that God has been punishing these people for centuries -- for any reason -- then it is not a reason to hate Christians. It is a perfectly good reason to hate God.[/QUOTE]

You may have reasons to question God, but you have no good reason to hate God.

I am very distrubed by many of the post here in this thread.

It is obvious to me many don't know God.

His ways are above our ways, His thoughts are above our thoughts.

God is Love! Yet He is also a judge. If you choose to disobey His Word/Commandments then you choose to be punished.

Is it cruel for a parent to tell their child you can't play in the street? OR is the love the parent has for the child to not get run over and killed or badly hurt?

Does that make the parent cruel? No. Neither is God a cruel God because He says no.

And just as the parent will discipline their child for disobeying them by running out into the road, it is the love of the parent that punishes their child. Just so with God.

Read His Word, talk to Him and IF you have a LOVE for the TRUTH, I truly believe He will show it to you.

To Esther: Conservative here checking in -- please put down your Obama hammer. It's blinding your thought life!!! Quit questioning his faith in Jesus. You don't know! Judge his politics not his faith. The question is not if God judges, but what are his judgements today in this time of Mercy?

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

I think this is a good theology opportunity. Haiti had many followers of Christ. Were they consumed because of the sins of others? Is this the message of Jesus? Was this violence that God surely allowed, a judgement? Can it be?

Matthew 25:32
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Nations listed here, is still clarified that he is going through INDIVIDUALS one-by-one, separating sheep from goats. He is not ruling and casting judgement over the whole nations here.

NATIONS used in NT sense, projected the idea of the masses, the people, the world. Also, the use for "nations' predominately, is in connection to the commandment to go and teach them, reach them and tell them.

Even the apocalyptic Luke 21:24 seems the only people still seen as a "nation" are the Jews:
They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The context for NATIONS in the NT is always about masses of people, collectively meaning "EVERYONE," and is never about singling out a specific nation for mass judgement.

I'm hard-pressed to find or connect the NT gospel where "everyone will give account for their own soul" to the idea of national judgement. These ideas seem foreign in the context of the New Covenant, that is no longer about blood, lineage and heritage, but about being adopted by the Spirit.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 866374)

I just read this to my wife. I got to the last paragraph and couldn't finish it. I started crying.

Re: This Is Why Non-Christians Hate Us

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 866391)

I just read this to my wife. I got to the last paragraph and couldn't finish it. I started crying.

Oh, don't feel bad. Maybe He'll say No! :)

(Of course, as He usually does, He will say Yes to some people who ask, and No to others. But, His ways are above our ways, so I'm sure He has a good reason for that. :thumbsup)