Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   The Inerrancy Of The Bible. (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=19161)

Bro-Larry 10-05-2008 12:42 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowFade (Post 603200)
I believe that the original manuscripts are inerrant. All translations, including the King James, have their errors.

I wouldn't call them errors, just misinterpretations.

I can see amost every poster filtering this post through their own doctrinal lenses. That's exactly what the translators did. Everybody is drawn toward the version which most closely agrees with their doctrinal position, therefore no possibility for change of mind (repentance).

Jesus most often quoted from the Septuigent Version, but that's only OT.

The only really important doctrine is to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Believe that Jesus' death and shed blood washed away our sins; believe that Jesus' bruises and broken body bore away our sicknesses; and believe that though Jesus' poverty we have enough provision for ourselves and some left over to give to others. Everything else is unimportant.

Believing the Gospel of Jesus always results in water baptism in Jesus' name and Holy Spirit baptism. Believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ will always produce everything that is necessary in the Believer's life. So it's not really that important which version you use.

It's all about the cross, nothing else.

nahkoe 10-05-2008 01:25 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
I do call them errors...but I understand that it's easy to misread a Hebrew word. I also understand that it's errors in understanding...the translators of the KJV Bible spoke KJV English. English has changed over the last 400 years. If we read it through as if it's written in modern English, we're going to misunderstand and misapply some things that were perfectly clear to the readers then, and not so much to us now.

And you're right..translating is extremely difficult to do without bias.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry (Post 603490)
I wouldn't call them errors, just misinterpretations.

I can see amost every poster filtering this post through their own doctrinal lenses. That's exactly what the translators did. Everybody is drawn toward the version which most closely agrees with their doctrinal position, therefore no possibility for change of mind (repentance).

Jesus most often quoted from the Septuigent Version, but that's only OT.

The only really important doctrine is to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Believe that Jesus' death and shed blood washed away our sins; believe that Jesus' bruises and broken body bore away our sicknesses; and believe that though Jesus' poverty we have enough provision for ourselves and some left over to give to others. Everything else is unimportant.

Believing the Gospel of Jesus always results in water baptism in Jesus' name and Holy Spirit baptism. Believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ will always produce everything that is necessary in the Believer's life. So it's not really that important which version you use.

It's all about the cross, nothing else.


Timmy 10-05-2008 02:24 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowFade (Post 603200)
I believe that the original manuscripts are inerrant. All translations, including the King James, have their errors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 603207)
Right, they are all errors related to copying or transcribing of men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nahkoe (Post 603472)
Study the Hebrew.

I'd much rather trust the original language than goosebumps...

We don't have the original Hebrew texts, either, and the copies we have have errors, too. Same goes for the Greek NT.

And the claim that all the errors we have in today's copies of the Bible (regardless of the language) came from human error in copying, translating, etc. has major problems:

1. It disproves the scriptures that claim God will preserve His word. (Maybe those are some of the errors we are talking about!)

2. It leaves us with no basis for knowing what God's word really is. Scholarship has done an impressive job, but there are still gaps and discrepancies.

3. I seriously doubt that this alone can explain all the errors and contradictions. Unless we are to accept that some of the errors we are talking about are actually mistakes in the canonization itself. Maybe the original manuscript of Exodus isn't inspired after all, or Numbers, or James, or Genesis.

Timmy 10-05-2008 02:30 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry (Post 603490)
. . .
The only really important doctrine is to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Believe that Jesus' death and shed blood washed away our sins; believe that Jesus' bruises and broken body bore away our sicknesses; and believe that though Jesus' poverty we have enough provision for ourselves and some left over to give to others. Everything else is unimportant.
. . .

Well, for an unimportant doctrine, the doctrine of healing has sure caused a ruckus! ;) (And a lot of depression and disillusionment, since it rarely works as the possibly flawed scriptures say it will.)

nahkoe 10-05-2008 02:44 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
We don't have the original texts, so yep. There's room for errors there too. My pastor...has studied a lot more than I have so I'm going to go with what he says about this. lol He says that the current texts and the oldest known texts have very few differences between them. That leaves scholars *fairly certain* that the texts as they stand now are reliable.

1. And I see this the other way around. That there are few differences between the oldest known texts and the texts in existence today (and here I clarify that I'm *only* referring to the Old Testament here) leaves me fairly confident that God has preserved His Word. Note the use of fairly. (and while I'm posting on this...any references that specifically state God will preserve His word, spoken or written? I'd like to look at them...)

2. See above about the few differences between texts. I definitely agree there are still things that are in question..but there are so many fewer of those in the original language (that being Hebrew..since I'm only discussing the Old Testament here).

3. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 603497)
We don't have the original Hebrew texts, either, and the copies we have have errors, too. Same goes for the Greek NT.

And the claim that all the errors we have in today's copies of the Bible (regardless of the language) came from human error in copying, translating, etc. has major problems:

1. It disproves the scriptures that claim God will preserve His word. (Maybe those are some of the errors we are talking about!)

2. It leaves us with no basis for knowing what God's word really is. Scholarship has done an impressive job, but there are still gaps and discrepancies.

3. I seriously doubt that this alone can explain all the errors and contradictions. Unless we are to accept that some of the errors we are talking about are actually mistakes in the canonization itself. Maybe the original manuscript of Exodus isn't inspired after all, or Numbers, or James, or Genesis.


mizpeh 10-05-2008 02:47 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 603497)
We don't have the original Hebrew texts, either, and the copies we have have errors, too. Same goes for the Greek NT.

And the claim that all the errors we have in today's copies of the Bible (regardless of the language) came from human error in copying, translating, etc. has major problems:

1. It disproves the scriptures that claim God will preserve His word. (Maybe those are some of the errors we are talking about!)

2. It leaves us with no basis for knowing what God's word really is. Scholarship has done an impressive job, but there are still gaps and discrepancies.

3. I seriously doubt that this alone can explain all the errors and contradictions. Unless we are to accept that some of the errors we are talking about are actually mistakes in the canonization itself. Maybe the original manuscript of Exodus isn't inspired after all, or Numbers, or James, or Genesis.

Timmy, your claims are bloated! Have you researched to see what those transcription errors are and how they affect the scriptures? According to the experts, no major doctrine is affected.

Are you a fan of Bart Ehrman? Try reading some of Dan Wallace's stuff.

Timmy 10-05-2008 07:22 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 603501)
Timmy, your claims are bloated! Have you researched to see what those transcription errors are and how they affect the scriptures? According to the experts, no major doctrine is affected.

Are you a fan of Bart Ehrman? Try reading some of Dan Wallace's stuff.

Oh, I'm well aware that the scriptures have been quite well reconstructed. Maybe not preserved quite to the degree Jesus hoped they would, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (OK, maybe that time has passed, so now it's OK for a few jots and tittles to be lost?) And it may be true that enough of it has been preserved that the major doctrines are safe. (Pay no attention to the knock-down-drag-outs over which ones are major and what the truth about them is!) I just wish God had done a better job, that's all. Being God and all, you'd think He could have done it perfectly.

But yeah, maybe my "no basis" comment was bloated. Should have said "shaky basis" or something. With the originals lost, even the most brilliant scholars cannot say with certainty what was in them.

OneAccord 10-05-2008 07:36 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Thhis is why I'm glad Jesus never promised to leave us a book to go by. He did promise (and did!) leave us His Holy Spirit to guide ius into all truth.

I know God heals, because I have seen God heal..instantly, and unqestionably.

I know God can deliver- and save, because I have experienced his delivering and saving power.

I know Acts 2:38 is right because I repented, was baptized in Jesus Name and recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost, just like He said I would.

I know He blesses- He has blessed me in more times than I can count. And in ways that I can't even begin to describe.

In fact, I can honestly say this: EVERY promise He has made to me, He has fulfilled everyone. Well, except one... and its coming! And, I willl go out on a limb and say this as well: Every promise He has given us in His Word, He has fulfilled that promise (or will do so at some point) in some way in all of our lives. We may not even know it... but I am more than sure He has made Himself real to us in some way.

I know the Word is right because It says Jesus would never leave us- and He never has!

Scott Hutchinson 10-05-2008 09:33 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
While I would admit there are a few copyist goofs if you will,in the bible the message that the bible contains is infallible and reliable.
The mistranslation of words would be man's and not God's doing.

Scott Hutchinson 10-05-2008 09:52 PM

Re: The Inerrancy Of The Bible.
 
Here is a good article.http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbP..._the_Bible.htm


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.