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-   -   No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=23465)

jaxfam6 03-29-2009 10:28 AM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by manofword (Post 727922)
hid did pre-exist as the son. As you have stated, it was in the mind/plan, which is what logos is, of god. So the son did pre-exist bethlehem, but not in the flesh...only in the plan of god.

God did create everything through jesus christ. It was not that jesus created, but that god created with a view toward/through jesus since that was his ultimate plan.

Personally, i have not problem talking about the son of god or that jesus was god's son, since those are biblical terms. However, i am not ever remotely close to tritheism nor do i believe that there is fellowship in the godhead. A lot of debate has been over the sonship. If folks would just start with the ot then go to the nt, instead of the other way around and would also stop looking at the bible through "creedal" lenses, there would be a lot less tritheism lurking in christianity! :d
homerun

jaxfam6 03-29-2009 10:33 AM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 728000)
Anyone besides me find this interesting?

Dictionary.com Has one definition of Person as "Any of the three hypostases or modes of being in the Trinity, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"
it seems to me that whoever added this definition was of trinitarian influence.
not a great surprise seeing as how most of the Christian world seems to be of that influence.

jaxfam6 03-29-2009 10:36 AM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 727885)
1 In the beginning was the Word. and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was not anything made
that was made.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world
knew him not.11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
13 Which were born, not of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1-3, 10-14 KJV

WHY is this so hard for people to see and understand? and I do not mean just 'unsaved' people, I am talking true believers, repented, baptized, HG filled people.

Hoovie 03-29-2009 10:37 AM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 728005)
it seems to me that whoever added this definition was of trinitarian influence.
not a great surprise seeing as how most of the Christian world seems to be of that influence.
I think it could be said they had Oneness influence as well. "modes of being" is not typical Trinitarian language is it?

tbpew 03-29-2009 10:48 AM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 728006)
WHY is this so hard for people to see and understand? and I do not mean just 'unsaved' people, I am talking true believers, repented, baptized, HG filled people.
I suppose you are postioning a view that asserts if:
A=B
and
B=C
then A=C.
{Note: this is referred to in mathematical circles as the Transitive Law of Equality}

If I am misunderstanding the source of your bewilderment... please accept my apologies.

If I am NOT misunderstanding your bewilderment (obviously my word not yours), then I offer this (for about the 7th time here on AFF:thumbsup)

The Word of God is NOT God.
The word of God is NOT a FULLY substitutionary equivalent of God.
God's word (like our own word) proceeds forth and comes from us (by our own will).
For A=B, B must be fully equivalent to A.
For B=C C must be fully equivalent to (able to be substituted for) B.

You can not make God's Word a substitutionary equivalent to God without making two God's; God himself and God's Word.

God did not become flesh.
God's word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Steve Epley 03-29-2009 02:15 PM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 727926)
Yes, but as I said, if this points to the incarnation and God had never spoken by the Son in previous times, the Son is incarnational (Oneness) as opposed to Trinitarians who believe the Son is not incarnational. So what is left? As I said, the Logos.

God spoke all things into existence (see Gen 1)

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
And He created By Himself

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Amen. Jesus is the Creator and became the Son.

Scott Hutchinson 03-29-2009 02:42 PM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 728041)
Amen. Jesus is the Creator and became the Son.
Amen from me as well.

Sam 03-29-2009 03:38 PM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 727897)
...
How Great Is Our GOD!

The splendor of a King,
Clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice,
All the earth rejoice
He wraps himself in light,
And darkness tries to hide
And trembles at his voice,
And trembles at his voice

How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God

Age to age he stands
And time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, Three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
The Lion and the Lamb,
The Lion and the Lamb


How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God

Name above all names
You are Worthy of all praise
and My heart will sing how great
Is our God

How great is our God,
Sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.

Hoovie 03-29-2009 04:07 PM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam (Post 728064)
A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.
Interesting you would say that! I am still at church ... they have been singing that song for about 20 min now! (extended altar service)

Sam 03-29-2009 04:13 PM
Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 728070)
Interesting you would say that! I am still at church ... they have been singing that song for about 20 min now! (extended altar service)
I've only heard that song sung at one church
and the folks at that church consider themselves trinitarian.


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