Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I'll repeat what I said somewhere before. Israel wanted change and they got Saul. Germany wanted change and they got Hitler. I'm sure this will be a change but will it be for the better? I personally don't think so. I've lived through all the presidents since FDR and have voted both sides of the ticket. I was voting before some of you were dry behind the ears and some of you before you even had ears. :)

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

They are different-true.

Just not by much, that's all.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ahh, elect Mr Changey-Change-Change, because he wont be allowed to do what he wants.... but will be Mr Changey-Change-Change. That makes about as much sense as a football bat.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Remember this is from someone who doesnt live the the USA.... I guess to some it doesnt matter if we have a friend of the local terrorist for president as long as it doesnt directly affect them! :crazywalls:crazywalls

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

how do you know the majority of americans want the troops home ron, you are a canadian, i know hardly anyone the wants that, good night, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I wonder if Obama can work "Mr. Changey-Change-Change" into his campaign. It's kind of catchy. :)

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ferd that is true, what one says to be elected & what they will do afterwards are two very different things, but aren't they all?

I believe Barak will be elected, but he will be a President that will be saddled with a lot of baggage.

Look for a one term shot.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

bump...just in case anyone had an opinion.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

How do I know?
Well true, I haven't talked to every American, but I have seen "Polls" & we as Canadians have troops in Afghanistan & a majority of Canadians want our troops home.

They were going to come home 2009, but that was extended to 2011.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ron, being a Canadian, I will give you a pass. Its likely you dont grasp the reality of American politics and what you get up there is filtered thru a Canadian centric news system.

the simple fact is, NO PERSON in the Republican party has been more ANTI-Bush than McCain.

McCain has been with the president when he felt the president was right and HARD AGAINST the president when he felt GWB was wrong.

there have been times when I felt McCain was too much against GWB other times I have agreed with McCain.

McCain has been MORE AGAINST stupid spending than Bush and McCain called for the fireing of Rumsfeld and a change in direction in the war in Iraq. on these I have agreed with McCain.

McCain opposed a number of the Bush tax cuts. On these I was against McCain.

McCain has NEVER been a guy that ANYONE could count as a "Supportive back bencher"

To suggest that McCain is effectively a 3rd Bush term, is either based in ignorance or it is willful misdirection.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

It is a mess, & however well intentioned it was to go in there (I am being generous) people now matter what country you are from, don't want America as an occupying power!

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

not picking on ya buddy, as a matter of fact i just watched a coming home parade for one of our gurard units, great that they are home, but the fight must be fought, the majority of people i know want the job to be done, then we are out, by the way, we are still in germany, japan and korea, what is that now 60 yrs, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

you dun drunk the democrat coolaid.

No one has EVER Suggested that we have "won"

and Iraq is not a civil war. and the lesson we learned in Vietnam is that when liberals cry we end up loosing.

we lost vietnam because of cowards like ted kennedy and others who WANTED to loose.

NOT because it was a so called civil war.

the situation in Iraq is very much winnable. the majority of Iraqis want us there and want a free society and know they can get it with out help.

but we have too many liberals who smell power and have decided they can get power by loosing.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

egads.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

That is not to say those countries that are allowing people to promote terrorism or an outright hatred of America, should be given a free pass either.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

ok, ok!

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

yea. according to mr obama we need to sit down and talk to them.

that way we can build trust and openness and come to a better understanding.

puke.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

ron my friend for the record, i want victory and then the troops home, but i am also convinced that the iraqi people dont want peace, if they did they would rise up and fight the terrorists among them and it would be done, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Folks, we had issues in Germany until the 1950's. we still have bases both there and in Japan 60 years later.


I want a stable ally in the middle east where we can have bases of operations. just like we do in Europe and the far east.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ron where are you getting your news? Bushisevil.com?

Dude, there is a massive push for Iraqi Sovreignty. Case in point. WE have not stolen their oil....

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
As someone who was raised around civil war that involved tribalism and religion, let me tell you that the Shiite and Sunni situation in that country and region will not be solved by what we are doing, and it has been worse because of what we have done.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

of course, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I didn't not say that Ferd.
Just as it is hard for me to grasp an American mindset, it is also hard for most Americans to grasp how the rest of the world views how American intervention
is perceived.

That is all I an trying to put forward.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

tstew i love you man, but i dont agree that it is worse there than before, and like i said if the people over there want peace they will have it, we have done that here a couple times, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

There is a web site called that?

Pretty perceptive person.:D

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

my friend, "MIssion Accomplised" was the correct asessment of what those particular sailors did who were returning after that phase was over.

GWB on the deck of that Carrier STATED that the WAR was NOT over and we had a long road ahead.

this thing that you are repeating is quite a diservice to the men and women who fought so valiantly during those early days in Iraq.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I don't think anyone is a racist if they don't vote for Obama. I will concede, I think that a lot of people who won't vote for him are going to do so because they are racists. This will make those who vote against Obama based on the issues have to defend themselves from being labeled racists.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Very Perceptive & very true!
Good post!

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

tstew i dotn want them to be like us my man, and i know about the sectarianism in iraq, i am not talking about the ethnic divides i am talking about the terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas, they are the ones the iraqi people should rise against, dt

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

i think we are banking on the ideals of freedom and democracy. NOT nationalism.

I do agree that part of the neo-conserivitive view ie "rise up" thing was off. that doesnt mean we just cut and run. we leave and the whole area destablizes and Iran controls everything.

not a solid option.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

We live in sad times. It's so hard to watch America going down the toilet- heartbreaking. And to see so many people,
especially God's people decieved in these last and evil days

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Well, speaking as a Military man who fought in Desert Storm, and as a man who has 2 uncles who fought in Vietnam.... and who majored in history in college, I disagree.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Yes, but due to the teaching of their society and religion, there will always be those who see us as the "terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas".
And you're still saying what the "Iraqi people" should do. Once again a republic centered view of them. The reality is that you have people who are Sunni or Shiite first and Iraqi a very distant second.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

As the parent of a United States Marine who served two tours in Iraq in the most dangerous places at the time (Fallujah and then Ramadi) I agree 100% with Ferd.

Those of you who claim us opposing Obama are just repeating what the "talking heads" say should take your own advice.

As Ferd said GWB made it clear in that speech on that carrier that the war was far from over and that difficult times lay ahead.

The lib media who hates GWB chooses to ignore all of that and focus on the banner congratulating the men and women of that ship on THEIR mission being done.

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Disagree with what?

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

It's ok Mark. We will continue to pray for tstew!!!

Re: Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Everyone recognizes the the White House was greviously off in their estimate of the time, money, lives, and resources that it was going to take to "win" this war. My point is that people who understand the world and that part of the world were saying what I'm saying from the beginning.