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-   -   "death panels" obamacare (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25567)

coadie 08-12-2009 02:06 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 787160)

I have read the bill and have even posted portions of it to prove that some claiming to be Christians are lying. The lies were posted in red.
Are you claiming to be Christian or lying or both?
Your posts appear that you don't understand wording in the bill and use some hack liberal web site to regurgitate it for ya.

coadie 08-12-2009 02:07 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther (Post 787208)
Something I want to remind folks of, IF they pass this bill as is, or even if they make admendments, they will over a period of time change it to what they wanted all along.

Look how are taxes have changed from what it was originally set out to be. IRS was to be voluntary, is it now?
Look at cap and trade. 300 pages came out at 3 am and that on the day of voting. These Democrats are deceptive and will hide the real nasty parts the best they can.

coadie 08-12-2009 02:23 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...ath-panel.html

"death panel"

Now further on is the article from Medicine czar Emanuel where he discusses the notion of
"quality adjusted life years"
"Disability adjusted life years" and
Then he disccusses allocation of healthcare to people based on their usefullness and reciprocity. I suspect only 1 other person read the document from Emanuel.
So we get people together "panel" and decide how to score the sick or disabled. Then we decide what to share with them. This is not a sickest first model. If you read what is going on with dr Emanuel, it is scarier than what comes from Gov palin.

coadie 08-12-2009 02:44 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther (Post 787208)
Something I want to remind folks of, IF they pass this bill as is, or even if they make admendments, they will over a period of time change it to what they wanted all along.

Look how are taxes have changed from what it was originally set out to be. IRS was to be voluntary, is it now?
Joe Biden says taxes are still voluntary. Pay them or volunteer to go to jail. Actually failure to file is a felony and failure to pay is a misdemeanor.

Light 08-12-2009 04:40 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 787294)
Are you claiming to be Christian or lying or both?
Your posts appear that you don't understand wording in the bill and use some hack liberal web site to regurgitate it for ya.
Coadi I posted the lies you told in red. Your lies have been refuted today by several republicans on the news.

I'll make a deal with you. Let's hire a lawyer (can be a republican)to read the bill as written, if you are wrong you pay, if I am wrong I will pay. Now put up or shut up.

coadie 08-12-2009 04:55 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 787412)
Coadi I posted the lies you told in red. Your lies:pirates have been refuted today by several republicans on the news.

I'll make a deal with you. Let's hire a lawyer (can be a republican)to read the bill as written, :wheelchairif you are wrong you pay, if I am wrong I will pay. Now put up or shut up.
Tell me why I would need a lawyer to read the bill?

You are the one that has very little formal education. If you need a reader interpretor, help yourself.

"death panels" Coming to a cube farm in Washington.

The sleazy democrats will invent some flowery name for them.

Members will be "Advanced Care Planning Associates"

Socialized medicine. Complete with all new medical terms.

Light you are very deceptive. as loudly as you accuse people of being liars, that is a sign that you are trying desparately to transfer attention from your deeds. Remember the Democrats press for abortion. It is nothing for you all to falsely accuse people because your hypocracy is exposed. so sad.

If you want to spend money on a lawyer, I can read and explain the bill to him. Remember your Donkey buds haven't read the bill they are pushing.



Question to self. why would the Pro Abortion baby killer party go ballistic on the expression "death panel" ??

Why aren't they proud of it?? HHMMMM

Any thing else?

Esther 08-12-2009 05:03 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
The more you look at this bill it is for HEALTHY individuals.

There is a penalty for doctors if they readmit a patient.

coadie 08-12-2009 05:23 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther (Post 787422)
The more you look at this bill it is for HEALTHY individuals.

There is a penalty for doctors if they readmit a patient.
By the way, that started coming last year. If you have MRSA which you got in the hospital, and go home and have to come back for more treatment, they want it to be on the house. In a mechanics shop, the say "come backs are free" If the car still runs rough, they don't get more for labor.

Healthcare that focuses on healing outcomes only will cause hospitals to decine admission for recurrent disorders. This is a bully clause. You don't go into a restaurant and order ala carte and get all you can eat. I can see a hospital refuse a re admission iif the government decieds site unnseen, it is the same thing the patient had last time.

MissBrattified 08-12-2009 05:34 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
When I read the re-admission part, this is what I thought about:

My father was on Medicare during the last few years of his life. He and my mother never had much money, having pastored a small church for 25 years, let alone private health insurance. Any care they received was through the government or out of pocket. My mother is still paying on his medical bills, the parts that Medicare didn't cover.

Anyway, I remember he had to be in the hospital for a couple of extended periods during the last year of his life. I believe the maximum amount of days allowed by Medicare was 17 days of hospitalizing, and then the patient either had to pay out of pocket, or be discharged. Basically, every 17 days, my father would be discharged from the hospital, and within a day or two, they'd have to call an ambulance to transport him back to the hospital, where a new 17 day period would start.

Talk about INEFFICIENT!!!! Not only is the system messed up, BUT every 17 days my father would have to go through the pain and discomfort of being moved around, and having his health decline for a couple of days until he was in bad enough shape to go back.

I'm wondering if THIS is the kind of re-admission the plan is meant to eliminate. In my father's case, that would have been an early death warrant. He was eventually placed on hospice anyway, but if he hadn't been allowed to return to the hospital a couple of times, he most likely would have died at least a year earlier.

Now, I am NOT for prolonging life unnecessarily, but that should be up to the FAMILY and INDIVIDUAL, with the personalized care of their doctor[s]--not the government.

I may not be interpreting the penalties for re-admission correctly, but that's where my head went.

edjen01 08-12-2009 05:43 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
MikeinAR....do you believe everything our President says? and if so...do you believe everything all politicians say?

Light 08-12-2009 06:07 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 787444)
When I read the re-admission part, this is what I thought about:

My father was on Medicare during the last few years of his life. He and my mother never had much money, having pastored a small church for 25 years, let alone private health insurance. Any care they received was through the government or out of pocket. My mother is still paying on his medical bills, the parts that Medicare didn't cover.

Anyway, I remember he had to be in the hospital for a couple of extended periods during the last year of his life. I believe the maximum amount of days allowed by Medicare was 17 days of hospitalizing, and then the patient either had to pay out of pocket, or be discharged. Basically, every 17 days, my father would be discharged from the hospital, and within a day or two, they'd have to call an ambulance to transport him back to the hospital, where a new 17 day period would start.

Talk about INEFFICIENT!!!! Not only is the system messed up, BUT every 17 days my father would have to go through the pain and discomfort of being moved around, and having his health decline for a couple of days until he was in bad enough shape to go back.

I'm wondering if THIS is the kind of re-admission the plan is meant to eliminate. In my father's case, that would have been an early death warrant. He was eventually placed on hospice anyway, but if he hadn't been allowed to return to the hospital a couple of times, he most likely would have died at least a year earlier.

Now, I am NOT for prolonging life unnecessarily, but that should be up to the FAMILY and INDIVIDUAL, with the personalized care of their doctor[s]--not the government.

I may not be interpreting the penalties for re-admission correctly, but that's where my head went.
My father on Medicare died of bone cancer but left no bills for me or my mother. He had a supplement policy with Humana that picked up the 20% Medicare doesn't pay.

The Humana plan cost my father nothing. Mother was on the same Humana plan when she passed and there was no cost.

My wife and I have Human Gold and it cost us nothing. Medicare takes $96.00 dollars a month ea from our SS.

We have never been denied care by Medicare or Humana.

My wife had surgery two weeks ago. It cost us $30.00 for the Hospital and $10.00 for the surgeon.

I say the government is doing all right with the existing health care why not expand it to all that want it.

Esther 08-12-2009 07:45 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 787444)
When I read the re-admission part, this is what I thought about:

My father was on Medicare during the last few years of his life. He and my mother never had much money, having pastored a small church for 25 years, let alone private health insurance. Any care they received was through the government or out of pocket. My mother is still paying on his medical bills, the parts that Medicare didn't cover.

Anyway, I remember he had to be in the hospital for a couple of extended periods during the last year of his life. I believe the maximum amount of days allowed by Medicare was 17 days of hospitalizing, and then the patient either had to pay out of pocket, or be discharged. Basically, every 17 days, my father would be discharged from the hospital, and within a day or two, they'd have to call an ambulance to transport him back to the hospital, where a new 17 day period would start.

Talk about INEFFICIENT!!!! Not only is the system messed up, BUT every 17 days my father would have to go through the pain and discomfort of being moved around, and having his health decline for a couple of days until he was in bad enough shape to go back.

I'm wondering if THIS is the kind of re-admission the plan is meant to eliminate. In my father's case, that would have been an early death warrant. He was eventually placed on hospice anyway, but if he hadn't been allowed to return to the hospital a couple of times, he most likely would have died at least a year earlier.

Now, I am NOT for prolonging life unnecessarily, but that should be up to the FAMILY and INDIVIDUAL, with the personalized care of their doctor[s]--not the government.

I may not be interpreting the penalties for re-admission correctly, but that's where my head went.
MB I don't think that is what they are talking about. I have heard some discussion back before all this was an "issue" about penalizing over weight people and not allow them to have full coverage health care because of their weight. Same thing with diabetics. It is consider incurable so the doctors can't do anything more for you, no need to keep coming back.

Light 08-12-2009 09:12 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther (Post 787485)
MB I don't think that is what they are talking about. I have heard some discussion back before all this was an "issue" about penalizing over weight people and not allow them to have full coverage health care because of their weight. Same thing with diabetics. It is consider incurable so the doctors can't do anything more for you, no need to keep coming back.

Medicare will pay for morbid obese people to have a bypass. I was a diabetic and no insurance would have me until I was old enough for Medicare. I had a lap ban operation and now I am completely off medication for diabetics.
Diabetics that are obese and have a bypass operation are no longer diabetic after the operation according to my Dr..

MissBrattified 08-12-2009 09:38 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 787460)
My father on Medicare died of bone cancer but left no bills for me or my mother. He had a supplement policy with Humana that picked up the 20% Medicare doesn't pay.

The Humana plan cost my father nothing. Mother was on the same Humana plan when she passed and there was no cost.

My wife and I have Human Gold and it cost us nothing. Medicare takes $96.00 dollars a month ea from our SS.

We have never been denied care by Medicare or Humana.

My wife had surgery two weeks ago. It cost us $30.00 for the Hospital and $10.00 for the surgeon.

I say the government is doing all right with the existing health care why not expand it to all that want it.
My parents had a supplemental plan, too, but they were still stuck with quite a few bills they had to pay. Some of the largest ones were paid off with my father's insurance policies, and some others, my mother is still paying.

Regardless, my point was it doesn't work right for everyone, and if hospitals and doctors are having to manipulate the system just to get adequate care for their patients, then it obviously isn't as streamlined as it needs to be. Medicare has been around for a LONG time; you'd think they'd have worked out the kinks by now.

I'm not opposed to health care reform. I'm just opposed to a LOT of the bill that is being debated right now, and that is partially because of the content of the bill itself, and partially because I don't trust liberals to have our best interests at heart. :coffee2

Pressing-On 08-13-2009 08:27 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
And we wonder why the Seniors and others are alarmed?
Quote:
Ezekiel J. Emanuel
Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet


This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic...cracy_Meet.pdf

Esther 08-13-2009 08:30 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 787509)

Medicare will pay for morbid obese people to have a bypass. I was a diabetic and no insurance would have me until I was old enough for Medicare. I had a lap ban operation and now I am completely off medication for diabetics.
Diabetics that are obese and have a bypass operation are no longer diabetic after the operation according to my Dr..
Since I have lost about 20 lbs recently I am now off my BP meds and my sugar levels have dropped back down.

Weight does affect our health in a lot of ways.

But as to the bypass surgery, my SIL who is a diabetic and overweight was told by her doc that the long term results from that surgery are too risky.

I am glad you have a great success with yours.

Pressing-On 08-13-2009 08:34 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 787682)
And we wonder why the Seniors and others are alarmed?
This quote has already been posted, but I was wanting the original source from which it came.
Quote:
Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/P...-Interventions

coadie 08-13-2009 10:03 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Choices, formerly known as the Hemlock Society. is also says it had a hand in crafting Section 1233, writing July 27:

Compassion & Choices has worked tirelessly with supportive members of congress to include in proposed reform legislation a provision requiring Medicare to cover patient consultation with their doctors about end-of-life choice (section 1233 of House Bill 3200).Compassion & Choices calls itself part of the "aid-in-dying movement." About itself Compassion & Choices writes:

... An organization dedicated to care of terminally ill patients, including those seeking a hastened death....

Compassion & Choices... improves care and expands choice at the end of life....

Our professional staff and trained volunteers help thousands of clients each year by... guiding their search for a peaceful, humane death....

We offer information on self-determined dying....

Our team of litigators and legislative experts fights bills that would force patients to endure futile, invasive treatment....




Fight eh. Let the "death panel" know!!!



http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2...3_au.html#more

coadie 08-13-2009 10:32 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Ha! Folks who really want to stick it to Obama and sow hysteria about "death panels" will extract this from Obama's same fateful interview with David Leonhardt of the Times (my emphasis):

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

DAVID LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists.
Quote:
Panel of scientists, ethicists doctors
And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.


So Obama "suspects" that the legislative process will produce some sort of independent group that can give non-determinative "guidance" on end-of-life care for the chronically ill, with an eye towards saving money. Just don't call them death panels!
Well, as are friends on the left will surely chant in unison, it's not in the bill right now so it is calumny and perfidy to suggest we might end up there. Even though Obama "suspects" we will.

HOW "NOT DETERMINATIVE" IS NOT DETERMINATIVE: Just how voluntary will Obama's voluntary guidelines be? If the government posts suggestions on a website and leaves it at that, that is one thing. But suppose governmnt watchdogs decide that a doctor who routinely fails to comply with the voluntary guidelines ought to be subjected to a full examination of his billing practices, treatment decisions and hiring practices. How many doctors will "volunteer" to comply with the guidelines rather than deal with that?

Quote:
Not call it a panel and don't call it death. Call it guidance and notice the "costs" end immediately except for the funeral.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/ma...pagewanted=all

coadie 08-13-2009 11:26 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116471698434

Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore....It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]
Part of what Gov Palin wrote last night.

coadie 08-14-2009 10:56 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Tired of the political migraines it’s getting from this, the Finance Committee finally decides to, er, pull the plug:
“On the Finance Committee, we are working very hard to avoid unintended consequences by methodically working through the complexities of all of these issues and policy options,” Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said in a statement. “We dropped end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly.”…“The bill passed by the House committees is so poorly cobbled together that it will have all kinds of unintended consequences, including making taxpayers fund healthcare subsidies for illegal immigrants,” Grassley said. The veteran Iowa lawmaker said the end-of-life provision in those bills would pay physicians to “advise patients about end-of-life care and rate physician quality of care based on the creation of and adherence to orders for end-of-life care.


So they are taking the "end of Life" or "death panel" provisions out.

Because of exposure and opposition. This is what happens when normal people read these bills.

coadie 08-17-2009 09:54 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Death Panel Bus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESlJG...layer_embedded

coadie 08-18-2009 02:55 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 789499)
WASHINGTON, D.C., August 17, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The US Senate has sounded a hasty retreat on "death panels" in health-care reform by striking out the provision on "end-of-life counseling" from the bill.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), announced last week that the Senate Finance Committee has now expunged all "end-of-life" provisions from the Senate version of health-care reform in order "to avoid unintended consequences."

Grassley admitted in a statement Wednesday that the storm of controversy surrounding the "end-of-life" provisions in detailed in section 1233 of the House version (H.R. 3200) expressed legitimate concerns that the elderly and infirm could end up pressured into lower-quality care or none at all.:pirates

"We dropped end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely," said Grassley, "because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly."

That is nice to know the end of life provisions are removed. Twisp said they weren't in there. :thebunny

coadie 08-20-2009 11:51 AM
President Bush rejected "death panel" pressures
 
Rules for radicals.

Deny the concept of "death panel" in it's entirety

Manipulate the target to voLunteer and come forward as if it is the patients' idea to end it:
Quote:
When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?
Plant the seeds when the opportunity is there:
Quote:
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to “shake the blues.” There is a section which provocatively asks, “Have you ever heard anyone say, ‘If I’m a vegetable, pull the plug’?” There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as “I can no longer contribute to my family’s well being,” “I am a severe financial burden on my family” and that the vet’s situation “causes severe emotional burden for my family
.”

Quote:
Well, the VA has instructed its physicians to deliver this end-of-life counseling to all of its patients

Quote:
When the Bush administration finally reviewed “Your Life, Your Choices,” it suspended its use within the VA system. For some reason, the Obama administration and Shinseki have reinstated the booklet this year. The directive reinstituting the booklet was issued last month.
That would mean Obama administration

\
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/2...-to-treatment/

coadie 08-20-2009 03:38 PM
Re: President Bush rejected "death panel" pressure
 
http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

Read the 'death book"

Obama wants to help you move on. The Death Panel hereinafter named "Advanced care Planning associate" will help ya.

coadie 08-21-2009 12:10 PM
Re: President Bush rejected "death panel" pressure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie (Post 791286)
http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

Read the 'death book"

Obama wants to help you move on. The Death Panel hereinafter named "Advanced care Planning associate" will help ya.
Some other news sources now cover the death book. When do they bring out the liberal spin?

coadie 08-24-2009 05:40 PM
Re: President Bush rejected "death panel" pressure
 
UPDATE: Obama's VA pulls so-called 'Death Book' from its website.
The Washington Examiner adds:


Quote:
We were supposed to be beyond any debate over "death panels" when it comes to health care reform. But now the administration is scrambling to explain whether and why it has been referring physicians to use a document for end-of-life planning that strongly hints at the worthlessness of life when its quality is diminished by even relatively minor injuries and health problems, such as being wheelchair-bound.

coadie 08-25-2009 06:58 AM
Federal death panel form letters
 
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - At least 1,200 veterans across the country have been mistakenly told by the Veterans Administration that they suffer from a fatal neurological disease.

One of the leaders of a Gulf War veterans group says panicked veterans from Alabama, Florida, Kansas, North Carolina, West Virginia and Wyoming have contacted the group about the error.

Denise Nichols, the vice president of the National Gulf War Resource Center, says the VA is blaming a coding error for the mistake.

Oopps. Form letters? Home office healthcare? People with common sense will run from the federal healthcare power grab.
You are just a number and just a code.

Light 08-25-2009 11:09 AM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
I wonder why the right wing never addressed the death panel issue while Bush was in office. It turns out there is a provision in the VA's rules covering ending a services man's life. It is true also that the so called death panel was in the Medicare bill while Bush was in office.

coadie 08-25-2009 12:00 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 792836)
I wonder why the right wing never addressed the death panel issue while Bush was in office. It turns out there is a provision in the VA's rules covering ending a services man's life. It is true also that the so called death panel was in the Medicare bill while Bush was in office.
President had the death book removed from the VA. Obama brings the Death book back.



The notifications went out in a letter intending to inform ALS sufferers about the benefits available to them through the VA. At that time, one of those benefits was end-of-life counseling and access to “Your Life, Your Choices,” the booklet that refers veterans to the Hemlock Society when they feel life is no longer worth living. I wonder how many of these veterans were given the booklet?
By the way, that booklet has been removed from at least a portion of the VA website, according to David Freddoso:


http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/2...ying-from-als/


ALS is one of the worst ways to die. So should the vets be told they were going to die?

coadie 08-25-2009 12:02 PM
Re: "death panels" obamacare
 
WSJ reports about 52 page "end of Life Planning Document It came from
Clinton administration.

Steer the vet by going on a work sheet to tell their own life would not be worth living.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5PTqB3XRqY

coadie 08-25-2009 09:38 PM
Obamacare is unconstitutional
 
Obama is asking congress to pass a law forcing people to buy insurance. Where is the constitutional authority??

Since when can they force the purchase of something we do not want?

We have some heavyduty koolaid drinkers. What say you? Are you hot constitutional scholars?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=othG8..._embedded#t=98

coadie 08-29-2009 08:45 AM
Re: Obamacare is unconstitutional
 
Let's take military control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_oD5...layer_embedded

This is hard tyranny. Not constitutional but what can be expected from liberals and a power grab.

SOUNWORTHY 08-29-2009 06:53 PM
Re: Obamacare is unconstitutional
 
we are forced to buy car insurance in California. We are forced to pay taxes. We are forced to do many things we don't want to. They can and they probably will.

coadie 08-30-2009 09:06 PM
Re: Obamacare is unconstitutional
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 795749)
we are forced to buy car insurance in California. We are forced to pay taxes. We are forced to do many things we don't want to. They can and they probably will.
It is clear we should have revolted earlier. Now they want me to buy the insurance of another person. Do you want to buy car insurance for the drinker? Do I want to buy abortion insurance coverage for fornicators?


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