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-   -   Does The Soul Sleep ? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=24349)

rava61 06-21-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Here's what I heard once......the soul has no need of sleep (our body does); so when we are asleep the soul continues to move foreward in time, and when we awaken it returns to us. The soul is not dependant on our body, rather is housed in our body - it is who we are and become - it is eternal.

So, if this is true then this would explain what the French call 'deja vue', which means that you come to a place or experience where you feel you have already been - in actuality, you have been there.

Time as we know it has no bearing on God or His Kingdom, it was put in place for our humanity.

Aquila 06-21-2009 10:46 PM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 762174)
This topic needs more study. The souls of the dead know nothing.

3: Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4: His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. 146:3-4

His body is dead. His thoughts perish.

Thats what makes the resurrection GOOD NEWS!

The dead can live again through Jesus Christ!
Michael... I have to address your post because no one touched it and there's a glaring problem.

I think you're making a common mistake here. This verse isn't saying that in the very day a man dies his "thoughts perish". The English Standard Version (also based on an essentially literal formal equivalency) translates it as saying:
Psalm 146:4 (ESV)
4When his breath departs, he returns to the earth;
on that very day his plans perish.
It's like the man who trusted in his riches and said that tomorrow he'll build a bigger barn... but that night his soul was required of him... his plans perished the moment his soul was required before the Lord and he died. This verse has nothing to do with consciousness or the lack thereof after death.

Aquila 06-21-2009 10:51 PM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rava61 (Post 763131)
Here's what I heard once......the soul has no need of sleep (our body does); so when we are asleep the soul continues to move foreward in time, and when we awaken it returns to us. The soul is not dependant on our body, rather is housed in our body - it is who we are and become - it is eternal.

So, if this is true then this would explain what the French call 'deja vue', which means that you come to a place or experience where you feel you have already been - in actuality, you have been there.

Time as we know it has no bearing on God or His Kingdom, it was put in place for our humanity.
Another possibility explaining 'deja vue' is an idea held in some forms of ancient Judaism called the transmigration of the soul, or "gilgul ha'ne'shamot".

crakjak 06-21-2009 11:27 PM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 761911)
Very good words. I see the same from scripture. References to sleep refer to the body alone. And Paul said we are absent from the body and present with the Lord upon death. We are unaware of things in earth, since our souls are not here then.
Exactly: believers will be endure a time of anionion (unknown length of time)life with Jesus in Paradise, and sinners will endure a time of anionion correction.

Michael The Disciple 06-22-2009 04:58 AM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 763134)
Michael... I have to address your post because no one touched it and there's a glaring problem.

I think you're making a common mistake here. This verse isn't saying that in the very day a man dies his "thoughts perish". The English Standard Version (also based on an essentially literal formal equivalency) translates it as saying:
Psalm 146:4 (ESV)
4When his breath departs, he returns to the earth;
on that very day his plans perish.
It's like the man who trusted in his riches and said that tomorrow he'll build a bigger barn... but that night his soul was required of him... his plans perished the moment his soul was required before the Lord and he died. This verse has nothing to do with consciousness or the lack thereof after death.
The problem with your theory here is it disagrees with the rest of the scriptures I posted that all agree with the one you are rejecting.

Such as:

10: Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecc. 9:10

4: Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
5: For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Psalms 6:4-5

17: The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

Also the Hebrew word for thoughts is Strongs number 6250. It means "thinking" or "thoughts". It doesnt mention any other definition.

easter 06-22-2009 07:23 AM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 763169)
The problem with your theory here is it disagrees with the rest of the scriptures I posted that all agree with the one you are rejecting.

Such as:

10: Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecc. 9:10

4: Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
5: For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Psalms 6:4-5

17: The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

Also the Hebrew word for thoughts is Strongs number 6250. It means "thinking" or "thoughts". It doesnt mention any other definition.
Well I could say Old Testament,Old Covenant.However there was no such thing as soul-sleep in those days either.Now I'm not positive on this but if memory serves right Solomon wrote Ecc.9:10.He also had 900 wives(His wishful thinking):sad :ursofunny No to be serious remember what King David told his servants concerning his baby that died?King David said"He will not come back to me but one day I will go to him.Now if you die and know nothing this would be a foolish statement for King David to say.Remember God said King David is a King after his own heart.
Speaking of Solomon you got to remember he intermarried with women that had strange Gods.Maybe strange ideals but I believe the bible is Holy Spirit inspired so maybe Solomon understood death to be this way.Don't forget about the witch of Endor.Of course God allowed this to happen but Samuel's spirit knew what was going on with Saul and knew what was going to happen to Saul and his son.So in light of this it would seem that Solomon misjudged about the dead knowing nothing.Anyways the rich man knew things.He knew he had 5 brothers still alive and knew they were bound for Hell and went as far as to beg Abraham to send the beggar to warn them.Abraham himself said"They have the prophets and they don't believe,they won't believe someone from the dead.(Jesus said this.)
For the dead to know nothing it sure seems like the Bible gives a different account of the dead.In fact seems like the spirit world is busy and it seems like they know what is going on here with the living.Of course when God permits it.

Scott Hutchinson 06-22-2009 08:55 AM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quite possibly to me when the bible speaks about The Lord bringing saints with Him,could this possibly be speaking about the spirits of the saints coming back to join their glorified bodies at The Lord's final return ?

easter 06-22-2009 09:22 AM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 763194)
Quite possibly to me when the bible speaks about The Lord bringing saints with Him,could this possibly be speaking about the spirits of the saints coming back to join their glorified bodies at The Lord's final return ?
YES!!!:friend
But not the Lord's final return to earth but at the time of the catching away(Rapture)

easter 06-22-2009 09:30 AM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 758378)
I don't think that Jesus would have used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus if parts of it were untrue. The rich man's soul was not asleep-he was in torment. Lazarus was not asleep, but rested in Abraham's bosom. Jesus also stated to the disciples that Lazarus was asleep, when he was dead. I believe by that Jesus was stating that his soul entered into a place of rest. Sleep was not a euphamism for death at that time, because the disciples didn't understand-thought He was speaking literally. Even in the Old Testament, I Sam 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? would indicate that Samuel was at rest after his death. Part of this "rest" may be that we do not know all that is happening of evil in the world... Lazarus didn't answer the rich man-Abraham did. But that passage may also indicate the rich man's pride, in that he would speak to Abraham but not to Lazarus even in death.

For people to go straight to Heaven (where God's throne is) or Hell (where the devil will be) upon death seems odd to me, since at the end, Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

So I don't really have an answer, but I believe that at least some people will be at rest after their deaths, not asleep necessarily, but at peace from the troubles they faced while alive.
I believe referring to Rev 20:12 is the great white throne judgement.Read and study up on the Bema seat Judgement.This will help to put these judgements in to prospective and the reason for the great white throne judgement.:thumbsup

Michael The Disciple 06-22-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rava61 (Post 763131)
Here's what I heard once......the soul has no need of sleep (our body does); so when we are asleep the soul continues to move foreward in time, and when we awaken it returns to us. The soul is not dependant on our body, rather is housed in our body - it is who we are and become - it is eternal.

So, if this is true then this would explain what the French call 'deja vue', which means that you come to a place or experience where you feel you have already been - in actuality, you have been there.

Time as we know it has no bearing on God or His Kingdom, it was put in place for our humanity.
Sorry friend but I believe you err.

Is our soul eternal? Think on this:

4: Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
5: For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Psalms 6:4-5

Verse 4 David asks the Lord to deliver his WHAT? His body? Absolutely not! Instead he asks YHWH to deliver HIS SOUL!

Why does he ask YHWH to deliver HIS SOUL?

Verse 5.....because IN DEATH there was no remembrance of YHWH!

David asked YHWH to deliver his SOUL from death. If his soul were eternal it would not die in the first place.

Actually MANY scriptures teach the soul can die. I will give one here off the top of my head:

4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4


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