Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

? I didn't watch it, but based on the comments of others, I'm not even slightly interested in watching it, much less count it as "must see". Seems bland according to you guys, certainly nothing fresh or ground breaking.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

Take it as an opportunity to interact with a very influential and outspoken conservative publicly. The beauty of the internet is that the message can reach more. The accountability, is that everyone can share in that discourse and not just head nodders.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

the church's minister of music resigned today. just posted a blog to announce it.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

Really?! That IS news...

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

Fresh off Ben's Blog.

12.09.2009
New Chapter of Life

News always travels fast when it's interesting, and with the advent of the internet, the word "fast" is obsolete. We're talking - lightening! So, I want to make you aware of a current change in my life before news travels down the line.



As of yesterday, I resigned my staff position as Minister of Music at The Rock Church. This was not an easy decision to make, but feel at this point in my life it is the right thing to do. Pastor Young and I do not have ill feelings toward each other, but rather much love and respect. I do not have immediate plans, and will remain in Sacramento and attend The Rock Church when I'm in town. I will be taking a few months off to evaluate where I am, travel and pray for future direction.



I just wanted to make sure any news was right news! You heard it from the... ahem, horses mouth. Have a great week! Mucho love...

Posted by Benjamin Vandiver :thumbsup

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

word has it this is the third leader to leave in the last 6 months

sermon 4 is up today. the "must see" even for "all who call themselves apostolic"

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

Has anyone noticed that with these guys God seems so weak and powerless and EVERYTHING is a crisis that WE have to attend to.

I can't believe that these men really understand grace and fundamentally the gospel message. They can have all the standards they want and I respect them for trying to be good people but do they really understand the biblical gospel.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

In fairness, if they truly believe what they claim (the Apostle's doctrine throughout the first century was repentance, a formula of baptism consisting of saying "in the name of Jesus", the baptism of the Spirit with evidence of tongues, the superiority and role of Pastor in salvation, and subjection to the standards of the church - all for one's salvation), then it is only logical that they are having a fit. Don't you think?

There are many that are realizing the standards bologna has been grossly misinterpreted and wrongly employed. And others are beginning to examine the water and spirit doctrine.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

Well, the standards are easy to question. Then comes the doctrine. It is the typical progression of people who are leaving this movement. I find that among my peers that have found true faith in God and living waters that are flowing they just aren't interested in the "spiritual stuff".

I have friends that left the UPC at the same time as I did who can barely stand to be in a church service where speaking in tongues or gathering around the altar happens because they feel so guilty about what they allowed themselves to get caught up in while in the UPC culture. They have told me that if they never speak in tongues or hear it again that is fine with them.

Even in my own heart if a person speaks in tongues I have to checked myself and realize that God does move in this way sometimes and I am not the judge of how a person worships as long as it is in order.

The only reason I mention this is because many in the Apostolic movement have preached that if we lose the standards, the dancing, and the doctrine that the spiritual stuff will go as well. What they are saying is true. Dr. Wilson is absolutely right in his assessment. The movement is changing but to me this is a good change. It is time to get back to unwavering faith and preach the simple gospel.

Re: WPF church back on the offensive?
 

:thumbsup