Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Okay, I get you on that. Keep then at their respective churches and we can be in unity. That would probably work. Just don't preach them together. Got it! LOL!

So you admit it wouldn't work on, like, on a tag team? LOL!

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

I'll give you a short answer, since we have discussed this ad nauseam.

Acts 2:33. "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Maybe, just maybe God is bigger than we are. Maybe if we get him out of the box that we keep him in, he can do more than we think he can.

Paul spoke about about being under the law to those under the law, and not being under the law to those not under the law.

Perhaps God can meet people in different ways, and is more concerned about RELATIONSHIP than strict adherance to man's various interpretations of what he wants. For every UPC three-stepper, or apostolic one stepper, you can find another dozen various Christians who sincerely feel, based on much study and prayer, that THEY have the ONLY way to salvation.

It must make God both laugh and sigh at the same time. When we get to heaven, I think we'll all be very surprised by who is there, and who is not

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Sam,

You must know some of my friends....

I wish more apostolics had friends outside of their church doors. They might find a bigger God than they knew before

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Let us not forget the admonition in Jude 1:3 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."

He tells us to "earnestly contend" for that "common" faith.

Standing for what someone believes, as truth, does not mean that we put others in some box that God cannot reach, that we do not associate our lives with those that do not view things quite like we do.

Being that there are various views and beliefs, it's best to follow after what we, ourselves, perceive as truth and not worry about what others believe or what they are doing. We can and only will get wadded up like a bad "junk drawer".

I'm not interested in that, at all.

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Right! How could we win souls if we isolate ourselves? We can't! We might as well move out west and build a gated community and only let those who share our similar beliefs in.

Oh wait... that already exists... :foottap




:ursofunny

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

One-steppers teach that the Jesus comes into your heart as the Holy Spirit at repentance and that the baptism IN the Spirit is a subsequent empowerment for service.

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

This is something I have posted before that aligns with the "one-stepper" position:

This is from pages 83 - 85 of a book titled Charisma Versus Charismania by Chuck Smith copyright 1992

Recently a young man came up to me and said, “I
accepted Christ several years ago, but I was never too
excited about it. I found reading the Bible uninteresting. In
fact, my mind would wander, and I couldn’t really concentrate
on the Word. I never really knew what it was to worship
God, and my prayer life was erratic. But since I was
filled with the Spirit a few months ago, my life has completely
changed. I have a great love for the things of God.
I can’t seem to get enough of the Word, and now I love to
fellowship with the believers. What a great change has happened
in my life since I was filled with the Spirit!”

This story, with variations, has been told to me hundreds
of times over by those who have found that there is
something more than just having the Spirit indwelling their
life at conversion. We do recognize that every born again
believer has the Spirit dwelling in him. Writing in 1 Corinthians
6:19, Paul declares that our bodies are the temples of
the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. He also declares in 1 Corinthians
12:3 that you cannot call Christ Lord except by the
Spirit.

The Spirit and the Believer
There are three Greek prepositions used in the New Testament
to designate the different relationships of the Spirit
to the believer: para, en, and epi. In John 14:17 Jesus said
to His disciples concerning the Holy Spirit, “Ye know him;
for he dwelleth with [para] you and shall be in [en] you.”
Here a twofold relationship is expressed: para (with) and en
(in). The Holy Spirit was with us prior to our conversion. He
is the One who brought us conviction of sin and revealed
Christ as the answer. When we accepted Jesus as our Savior
and invited Him into our lives, the Holy Spirit began to
indwell us.

But God has something more—the beautiful empowering
through the epi relationship. Note that this is what
Jesus was promising His disciples just prior to His ascension.
In Luke 24:49 He said, “Behold, I send the promise of
my Father upon [epi] you” or “over you.” In Acts 1:8 He
said, “But ye shall receive power after that the Holy [Spirit]
is come upon [epi] you.”

We read in Acts 10:44 that the Holy Spirit descended
“upon” the Gentile believers in the house of Cornelius:
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy [Spirit] fell
upon [epi] all of them which heard the word.” In Acts 19:6,
when Paul laid hands upon the Ephesian believers, the
Holy Spirit came upon [epi] them.

We read in Acts 8 that Philip had gone to Samaria and
preached Christ unto them; many people believed Philip’s
preaching of the things of the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, and they were baptized. If there is
just one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), then we must accept that
at this point the Samaritan believers were baptized by the
Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), and the
Holy Spirit began to indwell them. It is obvious, however,
that there was yet a further relationship to the Holy Spirit
to be received, for when the church in Jerusalem heard that
the Samaritans had received the gospel, they sent Peter and
John unto them that they might pray for them to receive
the Holy Spirit, for as yet He had fallen upon [epi] none of
them.

The Overflowing Life
When Paul came to the church in Ephesus and found
that the believers’ experience was lacking, possibly in love
or joy and zeal, he asked them, “Did you receive the Holy
Spirit when you believed?” If the full relationship with the
Spirit is attained simultaneously with conversion, the question
makes no sense. The question itself acknowledged a
relationship deeper and beyond the conversion experience.
What they were lacking was the epi relationship with the
Holy Spirit, for that is what resulted when Paul laid his
hands upon them in Acts 19:6: “and the Spirit came upon
[epi] them.”

Being filled with the Spirit adds new dimensions of
love, joy, and exuberance to the Christian life. If Paul the
apostle would meet you and begin to share the glories of
Christ with you, would he be apt to ask, “Did you receive
the Spirit when you believed?” God wants your life not to
just be indwelt or even filled with the Spirit. He wants your
life to overflow.

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

In response to some questions about a person having the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost or Spirit of Christ dwelling within them or being born of the Spirit and then a subsequent post salvation experience called a filling with the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or a baptism in the Spirit, I recently posted the following on a forum:

Chuck Smith's premise in the book, "Charisma Vs. Charismania," is, if I understand him correctly, that there is an experience called salvation, or regeneration (being born again), or the birth of the Spirit which takes place when a person comes to Jesus in faith and repentance and calls upon the Lord for salvation. Also, at that time the Holy Spirit places/plunges/baptizes/immerses the person into Christ or into the body of Christ. This is what he is calling "en" or the Spirit within. He also states that there is a subsequent experience of the Spirit coming upon (epi) which can be separate from the salvation experience. This "epi" experience could be likened to being baptized in the Spirit or to being saturated with the Spirit or being plunged into the Spirit much like baptism in water. We some times use the term "one birth and many fillings" to describe the activity of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer.

There are differences of opinion on just when the Apostle Peter was "born of the Spirit" but prior to His ascension Jesus told him and others to wait in Jerusalem until they were endued with power which He called a baptism in the Spirit. Most of us believe that happened 10 days later at Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:1-4 when it says they were filled with the Spirit. Later, in chapter 4 we read again of Peter being filled with the Spirit as he spoke to the Jewish leaders (Acts 4:8) and again later when he was praying with a group of believers (Acts 4:31).

This pattern of a birth of the Spirit or salvation followed by a subsequent filling by the Spirit, or a baptism in the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or the Spirit falling upon can be seen a couple of times in the Book of Acts.

The traditional date for the conversion of the Apostle Paul is January 25, AD 32 where he encountered the risen Christ outside Damascus. At this encounter he evidently believed Jesus was risen from the dead and he called him "Lord." Yet it wasn't until three days later when Ananias came into him that he was filled with the Spirit through the laying on of hands.

Also, Acts chapter 8 shows (in the opinion of some) this same distinction. In the winter of AD 31/32 Philip went to Samaria and preached Christ to them. The people responded by believing (receiving the Word according to Acts 8:14) and were baptized in water. So, this is seen as a salvation or born again experience when the Spirit came into them and placed/baptized them into the Body of Christ. Then some time later (we're not told how much time went by) , by the laying on of hands these believers received the Spirit or the Spirit came or fell upon them.

This is also seen by the way the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch is recorded in some texts and quoted in some manuscripts. Notice that Philip would not consent to the baptism of the eunuch until he was assure that he was a believer. Then, subsequent to his baptism in water, the Spirit fell upon him:
"36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized? 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch and the angel of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea."

Again, not to belabor the point.

The experience of Cornelius around 38 AD is seen a couple of different ways. While Peter was preaching, the sermon was interrupted by Cornelius and others speaking with tongues. Some see this speaking with tongues to be the new birth experience. Others believe that when these Gentiles believed and accepted the Word as preached by Peter they were born again (Spirit came to dwell within) and as they rejoiced in their newfound experience they were also filled with the Spirit or baptized in the Spirit or the Spirit came upon (epi) them.

Similarly in Acts 19 which probably occurred around October in AD 53. There are some things we don't know about just what happened there. We do know that when Paul questioned them they said they had not even heard that there was a Holy Ghost. This seems strange because the message of John the Baptist was that he was the one who would baptize in water but One who would baptize in the Holy Spirit would come after him. We do know that Paul explained that they should believe on Jesus Christ, they were baptized in water, and when hands were placed upon them the Spirit came on them (again, the epi experience) and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

A separate filling is also found in the Epistle to the Ephesians. This letter was written to the saints and faithful in Ephesus so we figure they were saved and indwelt by the Spirit. Paul alludes to the Spirit being in them in verse 13 when he says "And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago." A couple of chapters later in 5:17-20 he encourages them to be "filled with the Spirit" or to be "ongoingly filled with the Spirit" or to be "being filled with the Spirit" as it is some times said. I do not read Greek but I have been told that this exhortation to be filled with the Spirit is:
in the imperative mode,
in the present tense continuous,
in the plural number,
and in the passive voice.
So, it is an experience that is available, can be received, can be experienced more than once, and happens after salvation.

Sorry this got so long. It is not an attempt to argue, just to explain that among Pentecostals (both trinity and oneness) there are those who believe that the birth of the Spirit can be followed by subsequent works of the Spirit such as a baptism in the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or the Spirit falling on, or being filled with the Spirit, or receiving the Spirit.

Re: Confess your sin, UPCI!
 

Although I believe the differences can co-exist ...

I have to agree with PO that many of the differences are foundational in their outlook ...

In speaking to a pastor that left the org in 1977 ... he shared that he had discussed his shift in theology with his elders at the time, JT Pugh and J. Kilgore ... he felt that his understanding of grace might be divisive.

Pugh, it seems shared this view and asked him to stay but ... he felt it was better to leave than to argue it.

The pastor admittedly did not have knowledge of the PCI men in the org, at the time of his departure.