Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I just know that for our church, it just has no relevance. It has nothing to do with secrets. The organization is something that the pastors deal with, it has no real connection with the saints. The pastors don't get up and teach what the organization teaches, they teach from the Bible. The politics of the UPC would be completely confusing to most of the saints. They would be appalled at the political side. The only time the organization comes into relevance is when it comes to conventions, retreats and sectional meetings. Granted, our church is not affiliated, just the pastors, but I have been to several other churches in my life, and I don't think in any of them, the political stuff would be something that would have much relevance. The only time it would seem to me like it would come into play, is if the pastor made some major decision based off of an organization action. (Which is what seems to be happening in some churches right now) Then it would seem to me that the pastor would have to explain what he was doing, and why, and then the saint would have to decide if they felt like it was a Biblical move that they were willing to follow. IMO. Also, what might make a difference is that in my town, there are a lot of choices that aren't only UPC that adhere to our basic beliefs.

Well... if the pastor is expected to "preach, teach and uphold" the AoF isn't it only fair that he tell the saints what's in the AoF and alert them to changes? And to help them to be wise about the whole thing, it would be helpful to understand the history of the org and the various debates and controversies that the org struggles with.

To just pretend that there is no context for the preacher's message is just plain disingenuous. Of course, if you're simply trying to raise a herd that doesn't ask questions then there will be a lot that you must keep from them.

For example: "I only preach the Bible..." Then it would be best not to bring up the history of the biblical text. Many Apostolic people already scribble out 1 John 5:7 from their King James Bibles but they really have no idea about the issues around that. You mention the phrase "Comma Johanneum" and you are met with blank stares.

There are many other examples as well, though Apostolic pastors rarely have to deal with this. Because of the entrenched culture of secrecy that exists, when a saint stumbles upon some atheistic or (worse!) Baptist literature and finds that the one-liners that they learned all of their lives don't always cut the mustard, that saint will usually slip away quietly and not ask any troubling questions.

But I feel that it's still always better to educate people than to leave them in the dark.

I find it very interesting how that many have characterized what comes out of the General Conference as being junk, warts, dirty politics, yada yada yada?

Is this really the perception of what GC is all about, airing dirty laundry and such?

Coonskinner, what if none of your church members knew who George Bush, Hilary Clinton, Fred Thompson, the pledge of allegience, and who the first president was?

Ask any of your congregation if they are UPC and I bet to a person they will say "yes"!

It is a shame garden variety saints don't know or are made not to care what goes on in the organization they have assumed an identity in order to represent!!!!!

Don't know about other UPC's but agreeing with and abiding by the AOF is the basis of membership at ours.

I had a friend raised in the AOG and he said every member of their local churches were not only made aware of org issues but got to vote on them locally so the pastor went as representative

That's why I'm not UPC...I attend a UPC. I have no real say in Org matters though I may know about a lot of them

I get my info here, than talk to my pastor privately. He spoke to the congregation about our district (WD) being split, which he was against, but not the TV thing, which he is also against. But he did state that whatever happens in the UPC will not affect the way we do church locally.


ARPH :doggyrun

That's not a bad idea actually - :scoregood

You mean pasted here? I agree why should they care what gets cut and pasted here....... :pirate

But imagine the shock of a person who believes they are UPC and believes certain things about the UPC only to find out several years later the UPC changed and your Pastor kept the news from you