Apostolic Friends Forum - Tulsa Report Day 2

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Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadfast (Post 371545)

"Is the above your only gospel?"

I find the quesiton humorous and a telling hint that you obviously have no clue about my ministry. The Church I lead testifies about the balance and doctrinal purity I try to maintain in my congregation.

But, rather than defend what I am and what my ministry is built around I'll just let some of those on here who have been to my Church 'qualify' it for you.

Using your own post I could well twist your words to surmise that "If it's not spelled out in the Bible then you have no business preaching about it." To this I could respond in kind and say, "Is that your only gospel?" because, if so, then that would put us in a hard spot as it pertains to such things as crack cocaine, child pornography, internet sex chat rooms and many other things.

The difference? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that your 'gospel' is bigger and more balanced than what you can list in one post.

:toofunny

Don't be so combative...you're misinterpreting my posts...I must do a better job of explaining myself...

However, I do believe that I must exercise care in preaching and teaching, first the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then, the clear principles and specifics given to us by the Apostle Paul.

Believe me, I am not trying to escape preaching a tenet of the Bible, but you and I do differ on my ministerial responsibilities...and again, I am not trying to interpret your posts negative...I really am not.

If you mean that by only preaching what is in the Bible, I am not preaching His Word fully, then help me - tell me what I must be preaching that I'm not.

By the way, you're absolutely right - I don't know you or your ministry or your church...I'm just having a conversation with you about these issues...

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadfast (Post 371500)

You came to Christ Church Nashville and didn't even call me???!!!!!:happydance

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

...and many other things.

I guess this is what worries me most...and many other things. How many "other things" are there? I said that I preach the principles of His Word...He has place sufficient principles to preach and teach about the dangers of drug abuse and pornography...but do I just carry that on and preach my dress codes as gospel, or do I couch my personal convictions in those terms - my convictions, not God's.

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 371579)

You came to Christ Church Nashville and didn't even call me???!!!!!:happydance

:scoregood

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadfast (Post 371500)

Bro. Ferd,

There have been issues all along. I'll give you that. However, as one that has travelled extensively throughout our fellowship I have to tell you that there has been a HUGE paradigm shift in some Pentecostal Churches over the last 10 years or so. That has become more 'in your face' over the last several years and now it's almost unbelievable that some still call themselves Pentecostal.

I remember back 15 to 20 years ago that when you saw really short skirts, much makeup or extensive jewelry it was generally relegated to two or three Churches who just didn't make an issue of 'standards' and, perhaps, a handfull of new converts. I think it was accepted that some Churches were 'worldly' and they were the exception.

Now, however, there are some environments that I go to that makes you wonder how they went from the epitome of looking Apostolic to... well... what they have become. At the risk of this becoming a 'standards' thread I think the general attitude has now gone from accepting that 'they are the worldly minority' to realizing that certain environments are moving completely away from the distinctives that set us apart.

This brings me to another point. I'm guessing that you'll see MANY more people making the 'Tulsa' move from certain districts than from others. It will be predicated on some who are in districts that say, "I just can't keep supporting the direction they are going" while in other districts there won't be many who leave because, bottom line, they don't see the trend of moving away from those Pentecostal distinctives.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that if I were in certain districts that I've preached meetings in I would have been the first one in Tulsa. Thankfully, in my area the majority (NOT ALL) of our Churches pretty much still value those distinctives of separation.

NOW, as to the bigger question: Why is television advertising the straw that broke the camels back? I have to be honest... I'm just not sure. But I can tell you that after being licensed for 27 years that television has always been a 'hot button' topic. I'm granting the liberty to those who say they hate the dangers of Hollywood to believe them. I preach against it as well and, as far as I know, don't have one television in my Church. However, I personally think that within the organization there is another factor that plays into the equation.

Mark Hanby was THE preacher of his day. He was looked up to and revered by most everyone. When he tried to push television in years ago and was denied... he bailed out. I could be 1,000 miles off base but I've always thought that there was a little resentment over the fact that a 'star' among us left for a television program.

His program eventually failed and he seems to have made his share of miserable mistakes. Even so, I think that the movement, pretty much as a whole, was offended by the whole issue 'I'm a 'star' and I'm pushing television' - combined with the fact that he bailed out - that for years when television is mentioned it immediately found deep emotional opposition.

Again, I may be 1,000 miles off base with my suppositions but, at least I'm honest enough to say it is only a supposition.

Steady, I understand the desire to lift a higher standard and also know TV has been a Hot Topic - especially in some districts.

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but please answer me these questions.

1. These who are inclined to withdraw fellowship over TV viewing, do they watch television clips on the internet?

2. If they don't watch TBN, FOX, ABC or CNN online, do they watch anything on You Tube that had previously been aired on TV? Where is the line of demarkation?

3. We are told that phone/commuter/television will continue to merge, both in hardware and services.

How will these brethren handle this?

How will they police the violators and is it really possible to have true enforcement?

Just to be clear -With very little exception, I am NOT a TV watcher. I am very interested in your answers, because it appears to be conundrum for not only the UPCI but for ALL who have/had a stance against television.

Thank You in advance, Steve Hoover

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Well, it's obvious someone has cut me off & not speaking

O well,wonder what it is this time

.

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 371582)

Just to be clear - I am NOT a TV watcher.

Thank You in advance, Steve Hoover

I understood you to be a fan or reality TV!!!!!

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadfast (Post 371399)

Well, Apprehended, you obviously are in disagreement with my belief that it was a matter of 'you've pushed me far enough; I'm not being pushed any further.' I genuinely believe it and will continue to believe it (even if some claim that is a lie as well).

If you are so adamant about them being 'cut off' then Tulsa isn't your problem... it's your answer.

I may not be among the Tulsa group... but I stand confident in their right to align themselves with those whose value system more closely matches theirs.

To allow anything less is to deny God the right to put those values in them.

God bless the Tulsa crowd with great Apostolic revival. I can only hope the UPC has a mighty outpouring as well.

Thanks for your response.

I certainly agree that they have a constitutional right.

Whatever happened to the principle of submission? Or whatever happend to the principle of "obey them that have the rule over you." Whatever happened to the idea of humility when everything does not go "MY" way?

If there are powers that are ordained of God, as all of these bretheren teach, what is so objectionable to submitting to that power? If we are going to CONTEND for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints, before whom are we going to contend...the world? No. We must contend for THAT faith before all of whom is departing from that faith.

Jude 4 makes that plain..."For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness..." Little good it does for preachers to preach to preachers who all preach the same thing, unless of course they are just trying to see who can strut the most and outdo each other.

Your prayer that God bless the Tulsa crowd is mine as well. Hopefully, the Lord will lead them to believe and to accept the doctrine of submission, humility and unity, even when everything does not go their way.

Again, thanks for your response.

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 371584)

Well, it's obvious someone has cut me off & not speaking

O well,wonder what it is this time

.

Wow, I didn't even know you had gotten married!:toofunny

Re: Tulsa Report Day 2

Steadfast,

If I were a cynical man I would think you are positioning yourself to preach meetings for the Tulsaites!!!

I could be wrong but I seem to remember you giving much less weight to this meeting before 1,000 of your conservative brethern showed up for it. I could be wrong. According to my wife I have been wrong before. A lot.