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- - 09-09-09 (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=26143)

Your answer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 799539)

We believe many well-meaning people belong to the Islamic faith. However, we wish to note that the religion and way of life in Islam is violent and was foretold by God as so, and encourages their people to such a manner of thinking.

Genesis 16:11-12 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

FROM THE QUR'AN

005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

"Walks in Islam", your Koran teaches violence. Find that in the New Testament.

I find it all over the bible. If the bible is not, as you teach, an all-inclusive book of the word of god then take the bad parts out then come back with a nice clean version and pick fights about it.
ISLAM means PEACE, and you call this walking in Peace?

(laughing) not to our millions of black Muslim brothers. Of course if you can make muslims out to be racist wife-beaters you can distract attention from the still-segregated christian churches (yes even the apostolic ones) scattered through the South. There are no segregated mosques Mike even in Houston where you live. But there are many, many black and white churches. Show deeds before you throw words my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 799554)

Walks in Islam,

Why is it that the word for BLACK, as in a Black person, in Arabic is “SLAVE”? This means that if you are a Black man, your Arab Moslem “friend” would describe you thus: “A man walked in to the store, and he was searching for you. He was a well-dressed slave, and wanted to buy some French fries.”

Sounds racist to me?

Quote:

Common sense says that there are multiple and different versions of the same story. They are written right there. If each version is completely different, then common sense says (3) of the (4) are incorrect. You say (I) contrived the error? I put the words as they are written directly onto the page. The error was contrived long before I picked it up. The truth is that YOU say you are to put all the accounts together, which I did, and they are different. Because of error.

Quote:

THE GOOD NEWS? It is not even a translation. It is a paraphrasing. Come on, know your stuff a bit better.

Leaving it out or not, your "holy" book tells you to beat your wives. Why do you distract attention away from the beating of wives?

Leaving it out or not your "holy" book tells you to beat your children. With a rod. At least that's what it says. If it does not say that then you are free to call me a deceiver. As to the paraphrase that is word for word exactly what the verse says. Are you telling me now your "holy book" is merely a collection of paraphrases that can be interpreted based on today's wind direction?

More dishonest twisting of my words. I said the GOOD NEWS BIBLE is a paraphrase and and not a scholarly translation. So, my HOLY book is not a paraphrase, but people made a paraphrase out of it and called it the GOOD NEWS bible. The version even admits it is a paraphrase of the Bible.

Quote:

She is not a rape victim. You miss the whole point of the law. A rape victim cries out. A woman who claims rape and yet did not cry out has lied. You are looking for faults in the bible. You are not honestly reading it to learn what it actually says.

I did not necessarily call this a fault in the bible. I only noted that the bible is no better and even stricter than the Quran regarding these activities which gives you little room to talk.

More distraction from the point. You claimed a rape victim was killed, implying the bible is cruel. Meanwhile a man's WIFE (!!!) is to be beaten, lightly or not?

Quote:

You have added "a woman who claims rape and yet did not cry out has lied". If the law meant to say that I would suspect that it would have specified it.

More dishonesty. Read the entire context. It is plain to anyone who honestly wants to understand the point. A woman who cried was genuinely raped. A woman who did not was accessory. A child could understand that.

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Instead, once again, you are here to add what you believe it to "imply" or "mean" (though your version is more palatable I guess)

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It teaches you to beat your wives. And you cannot justify it.

I do not have to justify it. I did not write it. beat them (lightly) is a far, far cry from "beat your children with a rod and they shall not die"

It certainly is a far cry. Spanking children is sensible, whereas beating an adult women whom you married is insane.

Quote:

And under the New Covenant there is no slaying of anybody since Christ has come and His blood can solve such errors that were not solved under law. Christians do not keep Law of Moses, anyway. But Islamics beat their wives. Find something like that in the New Testament.

(laughing) only an idiot or coward beats up on his wife. Are you kidding me? Divorce is much easier in islam than it is in any other society and the Quran specifically states that mistreatment by a husband is grounds for immediate and uncontested divorce.

Yet Koran teaches men to beat their wives??? What a religion of contradiction. Mistreatment by a husband is beating his wife whether lightly or not. And then the Koran has the audacity to speak against mistreatment by husbands of their wives.

Quote:

Right. Christians who choose not to believe the ways of Islam, you mean.

That's not what it says but again you appear to be choosing to "add" some commentary to make it "less" palatable. LOL

More twisting. You believe the Koran is truth. You believe truth set before Christians that is rejected makes them untrue Christians. Yes or no?

Quote:

Re-interpreting the bible? lol. And you claimed the woman who cried not was a rape victim? You do not honestly read the Bible enough to even be able to learn its truth, and you tell me I am re-interpreting the Bible? The Koran CHANGES partway through its own text!

From:

And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian."

To:

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." Qur’an 5:51

[b]As stated, this appears to be a distinctly accurate statement and nailed christians cold. Christian loyalties appear to shift to the needs only of their pocketbooks and they would do business with Satan himself

All Christians? Muhammed made a blanket statement about all Christians. Is that what you believe? You believe true Christians confess that Jesus is God Almighty?

Quote:

Mohammed changed his mind after the book was not even finished!

The fact is that the New Testament does not tell us to hate anyone or treat anyone badly as your Koran teaches you, even if people do not accept the Gospel. It tells us to love our enemies. Your "holy" book tells you to dislike them. Can't wiggle out of this one. Your book teaches hatred.

I do not deny the words of my book nor do I as you say "wiggle out of them". After all I put the good and the bad, unchanged, in front of you.

Could not answer my question, could you?

Love ya, though. Unlike the Koran teaches. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam (Post 799559)

(laughing) not to our millions of black Muslim brothers.

Your brothers who do not know what the Koran says about black people, you mean.

Quote:

Of course if you can make muslims out to be racist wife-beaters you can distract attention from the still-segregated christian churches (yes even the apostolic ones) scattered through the South.

Any church that is segregated and against all colors being in the congregation is not apostolic whether they call themselves that or not. Sort of like your good Islamic brothers such as Osama Bin Laden?

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There are no segregated mosques Mike even in Houston where you live.

What about this guy's mosque?

Quote:

Black Muslim lawyer Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour recently made news when it was revealed that he was a patron of Barack Obama and recommended him for admission to Harvard Law School in 1988. Back in the 1960s, al-Mansour, whose “slave name” was then Don Warden, was deeply involved in Bay Area racial politics as founder of a group called the African American Association. A close personal adviser to Huey Newton and Bobby Seale, al-Mansour helped the pair establish the Black Panther Party but later broke with them when they entered coalitions with white radical groups. After becoming a Muslim, al-Mansour found not only an ideological justification for his racism but also a political purpose. That was, in the words of a memorandum produced by the Muslim Brotherhood and seized by the FBI as part of its probe of the Holy Land Foundation, to “eliminate and destroy the Western civilization from within.” Many black racists like al-Mansour are key figures in this “stealth” jihad, whose prime recruiting grounds are the U.S. prisons and mosques where inmates and worshippers alike are taught to embrace a radical Islam engaged in an apocalyptic battle against America.

Any segregated church is not of God.

Quote:

But there are many, many black and white churches. Show deeds before you throw words my friend.

I have. :)

Walks in Islam, is Jesus God Almighty or not? And if not, then is a Christian who believes Jesus is Almighty God to be considered someone who rejected the truth that moslems claim they show us regarding Jesus?

Waloks in Islam,

What does this mean if not racism?

Ishaq:243
"I heard the Apostle say: 'Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks.... Allah sent down concerning him: 'To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, 'If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'"

Tabari II:11 "Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African's color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks."

Tabari II:21 "Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them."

Bukhari: V9B89N256 "Allah's Apostle said, 'You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.'"

Bukhari:V4B52N137 "The Prophet said, 'Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'"

Where have all the moslems gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 800260)

Where have all the moslems gone?

Their all sitting on the front porch, dandelion and sun scorched.

I have been busy.

Osama bin Ladin is not my "brother". Nor are any of his twisted followers. He and his followers have killed and tortured many thousands of Muslims and far more muslims have died by his hands than any other group. He is a creation of our own country, justified to spank the russians when we could not do it ourselves, that Muslims and non-Muslims alike now have to deal with.

You cannot tell me that (4) completely different version of the same story from so-called "witnesses" that directly contradict each other can all be correct. They cannot be blended, or explained, or justified. Better to just acknowledge that the general events happened but that the details are hidden than try to somehow explain that they are all correct. Because they contradict. The words are there and the factual details don't match. Nice of you to admit your bible is a paraphrase. None of the other "paraphrases" match either. I checked them all LOL.

As to God or not, I am not the one to ask. Use the words of Jesus himself who GOD spoke through quite often:

"I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

Get it? Right hand? Whose right hand? Who is the Son of Man? Is it not Jesus himself?

Islam, like christianity, teaches that Jesus will return to and rule the earth. Not Mohammed, but Jesus. Islam also teaches that Jesus was a messenger from GOD who was taken up to heaven by GOD. Jesus taught to pray to GOD. From his cross (at least in one version) he committed his spirit to GOD and another version he prayed to GOD. Did Jesus never once, at any time, in any teaching, say "worship me"? No he did not, he deferred to GOD consistantly and throughout his ministry.

The Quran teaches that there is no difference between those who follow the law as stated in the Quran and those who follow the teachings of Jesus. They are the same. Jesus taught to and exampled praying to ELI the root word for Allah which goes back thousands of years.

You are free to claim racism in Islam all you want. I do see racism in the apostolic church and I do not see racism in Islam. The apostolic church has "ministry" and "black ministry" still on their website. The churches are split by color and it is still extremely common to have a "white" church and "black" church in the same city and the two congregations absolutely, not once, never mix.

Tabari is a Shi'a source and is the most-used by christians to degrade Islam. For good reason. Tabari directly contradicts the teachings of Islam and the writings represent a minority sect of the religion. It is equivalent of me posting nasty old documents from the Roman Catholic Church and applying it to the apostolic faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 799577)

Your answer, I have been distracted. It is Ramadan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 799561)

There is no error. You are not even able to honestly read what I am writing, let alone honestly read what the bible is actually conveying. I said none of the the accounts were errors. It's like having three witnesses to one event. One witness saw some details, while the other saw other details. Put the two accounts together to get the full picture, but don't look at one witness and call him a liar when he honestly reported what he saw and missed the details the other witness saw.

Your dishonesty is showing.

I cut and pasted direct quotes. It is the most honest thing to do when discussing discrepencies in a book anyway. Your lack of a single word from your bible above coupled with name calling tells me that YOU do not have an answer. The words as posted are self-explanatory anyway. Take the words and explain them another way. Line by line. If you can. I claim that you cannot. LOL

More dishonest twisting of my words. I said the GOOD NEWS BIBLE is a paraphrase and and not a scholarly translation. So, my HOLY book is not a paraphrase, but people made a paraphrase out of it and called it the GOOD NEWS bible. The version even admits it is a paraphrase of the Bible.

OH I see. Then find a version of the bible that is not a paraphrase where, as you claim, some details in the posted stories are left out and then included in another version as additional information. Make sure that your version of the bible does not directly describe events one way then completely different events another. That is, as you say, dishonest.

More distraction from the point. You claimed a rape victim was killed, implying the bible is cruel. Meanwhile a man's WIFE (!!!) is to be beaten, lightly or not?

I did not "claim" it I posted the verse, again, line by line. Either way, willing or not, the bible teaches that the penalty for adultery is death. Or so it says. Is this a paraphrase too?

More dishonesty. Read the entire context. It is plain to anyone who honestly wants to understand the point. A woman who cried was genuinely raped. A woman who did not was accessory. A child could understand that.

Really? Because that is not what it says. It does not specifically say what you say it means. If that is what it means then why does it not specifically say willingly or unwillingly? A woman who is forced but does not cry out because say a weapon is used and she is afraid of certain death is killed under the literal interpretation.

It certainly is a far cry. Spanking children is sensible, whereas beating an adult women whom you married is insane.

I happen to agree with this. LOL

Yet Koran teaches men to beat their wives??? What a religion of contradiction. Mistreatment by a husband is beating his wife whether lightly or not. And then the Koran has the audacity to speak against mistreatment by husbands of their wives.

The Quran does speak specifically against mistreatment by husbands of their wives. Thank you for saving me from making that point.

More twisting. You believe the Koran is truth. You believe truth set before Christians that is rejected makes them untrue Christians. Yes or no?

The truth set before christians rejected by christians is specifically defined in the Quran as their book. AKA the teachings of all the prophets including Jesus. The Quran teaches that most christians reject these teachings.

All Christians? Muhammed made a blanket statement about all Christians. Is that what you believe? You believe true Christians confess that Jesus is God Almighty?

I believe true christians will follow the example as lived and taught by Jesus. I have known few who do.

Could not answer my question, could you?

Which one? LOL

Love ya, though. Unlike the Koran teaches. :)

(laughing) I am certainly not your enemy!! LOL