Apostolic Friends Forum - How much information should the saints expect from their pastor?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 268722)

But imagine the shock of a person who believes they are UPC and believes certain things about the UPC only to find out several years later the UPC changed and your Pastor kept the news from you

I guess the difference of approach is I don't think very many of the saints at our church would identify themselves as UPC, they would say they are Apostolic or Pentecostal.

Most that I meant would say "I'm UPC"

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 268705)

Well... if the pastor is expected to "preach, teach and uphold" the AoF isn't it only fair that he tell the saints what's in the AoF and alert them to changes? And to help them to be wise about the whole thing, it would be helpful to understand the history of the org and the various debates and controversies that the org struggles with.

To just pretend that there is no context for the preacher's message is just plain disingenuous. Of course, if you're simply trying to raise a herd that doesn't ask questions then there will be a lot that you must keep from them.

For example: "I only preach the Bible..." Then it would be best not to bring up the history of the biblical text. Many Apostolic people already scribble out 1 John 5:7 from their King James Bibles but they really have no idea about the issues around that. You mention the phrase "Comma Johanneum" and you are met with blank stares.

There are many other examples as well, though Apostolic pastors rarely have to deal with this. Because of the entrenched culture of secrecy that exists, when a saint stumbles upon some atheistic or (worse!) Baptist literature and finds that the one-liners that they learned all of their lives don't always cut the mustard, that saint will usually slip away quietly and not ask any troubling questions.

But I feel that it's still always better to educate people than to leave them in the dark.

I've been in the UPC for over 30 yrs. The first 15 years, our pastor taught and even read the AoF to us over the pulpit. He taught heavy against TV and backed the normal holiness standards. Then, he and others began to get TV's and suddenly, holiness and TV isn't mentioned any more. The congregation is split about 50/50 on TV. Now that resolutions #3 and #4 have been passed, how could he not mention them? Some in the church are upset about certain topics not being mentioned anymore. Can you just stop talking about something and hope it will cease to exist?

As a added thought; many in our church don't have internet. Most are too poor to be able to afford it. But several of us mentioned the upcoming vote to the pastor prior to GC so he knows there is some knowledge out there. This seems to be another reason to address the topic. Just to explain where we go from here and what effects it will have on the local congregation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 268722)

But imagine the shock of a person who believes they are UPC and believes certain things about the UPC only to find out several years later the UPC changed and your Pastor kept the news from you

This is exactly the case I was speaking of earlier.

It's not a very wise scenario.

Never expect too much information from a pastor, he is limited to a daily quota.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 268603)

I never, ever, ever talk about the political junk of the UPC from the pulpit.

I pastor people who wouldn't have any idea who Kenneth haney even is.

I am a member of the UPC.

They aren't.

With all due respect sir, but if you are a member of the UPC, wouldn't it make sense that your congregation are members too? For a pastor to simply ignore an issue that they may or may not agree with simply because you're not interested in the politics is cheating your people. Maybe some of your people want to know what's going on, that's why you go to the GC! So, pastors that ignore the results of resolution 4 simply because they disagree with it does a disservice to their congregation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs (Post 268808)

This is exactly the case I was speaking of earlier.

It's not a very wise scenario.

I agree with The Mrs and Praxeas on this and I disagree with Coonskinner. It's like going to church and always believing you believe one way only to have yourself rattled 20 years later that the pastor went in another direction. Good points Praxeas and The Mrs!! If I belong to a church and pay tithes and other support, I deserve to know what is going on in my church!

I agree with Coonskinner. I don't talk of UPC political junk either. I don't burden them with that mess. I carry a card but the church isn't affilated. The church member are members of the local church not the UPC.

Still Not Getting It

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted (Post 268835)

True, but most signs in front of the church say United Pentecostal Church, or UPCI affiliated, what's the difference? What are you saying, the pastor can be UPC, but the people can be whatever they want? I agree, it's of no value to "burden" the church with the "politics" of the organization, but, if that sign states, UPC or UPCI affiliated, then the congregation is UPC!