Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

Some of the best subjects are the hardest pills to swallow. Nevertheless it is one of my favorites. Blessings to you. :thumbsup

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

Scripture makes very clear:

1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1 Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1 Cor 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1 Cor 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1 Cor 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Paul is clearly teaching here that the resurrection from the dead is a critical point to understand for the Christian, for if there is no resurrection from the dead (as demonstrated by Christ's resurrection), your faith is totally in vain.

But, why would Paul say this, if when you died, you continued to live in a conscious spirit form in heaven (as is taught by most Christian churches)?

That would make no sense at all.

Paul is saying that without a resurrection, the dead would cease to exist forever, in any form at all.

Death would be final, a completely futile and hopeless end of existence.

Paul clearly put his hope in the promise of a resurrection from the grave, which he says happens at Christ's second coming.

Phil 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phil 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phil 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Paul again addressed the resurrection to the Thessalonian church:

1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring [forth from the grave] with him.
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep.
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Thessalonians were sorrowing over the dead, and concerned that because they were dead, they were gone forever and without any hope of salvation.

Note that Paul does not comfort the Thessalonians by saying the immortal spirits of their dead loved ones are already blissfully in heaven in the presence of the Lord.

Paul responds that just as Jesus was resurrected from the dead, so those who have died in faith will be resurrected at the second coming, then to ever be with the Lord.

And Paul makes the point that this resurrection of the righteous dead precedes the living saints joining the Lord in the clouds.

Paul is clearly reaffirming the resurrection hope to the Thessalonian church, not the immortality of the soul.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ demonstrates that for those with faith in Him, even the power of death can be overcome by that faith:

John 11:21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
John 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Lazarus was dead, in the grave for four days.

Martha knew nothing of Lazarus being in heaven for the last four days, she mourned because her brother was in his grave, and she knew he would remain there, dead, until until the resurrection of the last day, the second coming of Christ.

Jesus told her that He was the giver of life, that He had power over the grave, and could immediately resurrect her brother from death, because He was and is the son of God, the Christ.

This resurrection hope, that Jesus can and will defeat the power of the grave, is the fundamental promise of Christianity, the keystone in the arch of the Christian faith:

Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rom 6:5 [NIV] If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
Rom 6:7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
Rom 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Rom 6:10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
Rom 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:10 [NIV] I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Phil 3:11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Phil 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

1 Pet 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Pet 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Pet 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

:thumbsup

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke, we have an account of a discussion Jesus had with a group of Sadducees, who scripture explains, did not believe in a resurrection of the dead (Matt 22:23, Mark 12:18, Luke 20:27).

They pose a question to Jesus about a widow who marries 7 brothers in sequence as each dies.

The Sadducees presume that they have posed an impossible question to Jesus, because they assume that after any alleged resurrection, the woman would be guilty of bigamy by having seven husbands.

Jesus answers as follows (emphasis is mine):

Mat 22:28 (KJV) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:23 (KJV) In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:34 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Note that the topic at hand deals with the Sadducees denial of a resurrection (the power of God to raise the dead) and their lack of knowledge of scripture on the matter.

In each of the passages, to prove the resurrection, God is quoted when he spoke to Moses (Exodus 3:6) and said "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" and then the comment is made that "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Some folks will point to the phrase "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" as proof that people never really die, but rather their "soul" continues to live on after death.

However it is clear from the above passages that the issue in question is God's power to raise the dead from the grave in a resurrection, something the Sadducees clearly rejected.

The question posed does not address who's wife the woman would be after she is dead, while still in the grave, but rather after her resurrection, because the Sadducees assumed death to be final and irreversible.

Those who cite these passages to support the purgatory teaching on the state of the dead are doing so out of context, and this is apparent to most any person who will merely take the time to study the matter.

1 Cor 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Cor 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The dead are in the grave, corrupt, decayed, dust, awaiting their resurrection at the last trumpet.

At their resurrection they will put on incorruption, immortality, but until then they rest in the grave.

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

I believe ESV, gave there own translation, against the hebrew word eshtonah.

6250. eshtonah or eshton 6251

thought
Original Word: עֶשְׁתֹּנֹת
Transliteration: eshtonah or eshton
Phonetic Spelling: (esh-to-naw')
Short Definition: thought

Word Origin
from ashath
Definition
thought
NASB Word Usage
thoughts (1).

Strongs:
thought
From ashath; thinking -- thought.
see HEBREW ashath

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

You know for along time I don't realize there were different views on the intermediate state, amongs't Christians to be honest I don't have it figured out, along with this subject I am going to do some study on the word sheol in both testaments as well as some other things.

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

Apparently my soul doesn't...:banghead

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

Maybe this will help you get started:

"Sheol". Hebrew, Sheõl.

From The Companion Bible.

The first occurrence of this word is in Genesis 37:35, where it is rendered "grave".

It occurs sixty-five times in the Hebrew of the Old Testament; and only by studying each passage by itself can the student hope to gather the Biblical usage of the word.

All heathen or traditional usages are not only worthless, but mischievous.

The following are all the passages where the word "Sheol" occurs, with the rendering in each passage indicated thus:


1. = grave, 2. = pit, 3. = hell.


1. Genesis 37:35.
1. Genesis 42:38.
1 Genesis 44:29,31.
2. Numbers 16:30,33.
3. Deuteronomy 32:22.
1. 1Samuel 2:6.
3. 2Samuel 22:6.
1. 1Kings 2:6,9.
1. Job 7:9.
3. Job 11:8.
1. Job 14:13.
1. Job 17:13.
2. Job 17:16.
1. Job 21:13.
1. Job 24:19.
3. Job 26:6.
1. Psalm 6:5.
3. Psalm 9:17.
3. Psalm 16:10.
3. Psalm 18:5.
1. Psalm 30:3.
1. Psalm 31:17.
1. Psalm 49:14,14,15.
3. Psalm 55:15. (margin grave).
3. Psalm 86:13. (margin grave).
3. Psalm 88:3.
1. Psalm 89:48.
3. Psalm 116:3.
3. Psalm 139:8.
1. Psalm 141:7.
1. Proverbs 1:12.
3. Proverbs 5:5.
3. Proverbs 7:27.
3. Proverbs 9:18.
3. Proverbs 15:11,24.
3. Proverbs 23:14.
3. Proverbs 27:20.
1. Proverbs 30:16.
1. Ecclesiastes 9:10.
1. Song of Solomon 8:6.
3. Isaiah 5:14.
3. Isaiah 14:9 (margin grave).
1. Isaiah 14:11.
3. Isaiah 14:15.
3. Isaiah 28:15,18.
1. Isaiah 38:10.
1. Isaiah 38:18.
3. Isaiah 57:9.
1. Ezekiel 31:15.
3. Ezekiel 31:16,17.
3. Ezekiel 32:21,27.
1. Hosea 13:14,14.
3. Amos 9:2.
3. Jonah 2:2 (margin grave).
3. Habakkuk 2:5.

As meaning "THE grave," it is to be distinguished from keber, A grave, or burying-place (from kabar, to bury, first occurrence Genesis 23:4): and bõr, a pit, generally hewn in the rock, hence used of a cistern (Genesis 37:20) or a dugeon, and etc., when dry.

(See note below on the word "well" in Genesis 21:19.)

Note on Genesis 21:19.

° well. Hebrew beer, a well (digged): not ayin, a spring or fountain; or bõr, a cistern (hewn).

:thumbsup

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

The wages of sin is death, not eternal burning. (Ro 6:23, Jas 1:15, 1Jn 5:11,12)

The wicked are destroyed. (Ps 37:9,10,20,38, Ps 68:2, Ps 104:35, Ps 145:20, Da 7:25,26, Mt 7:13, Mt 10:28, Jn 3:16, Php 3:18,19, 2Th 1:8-10, 2Pe 3:7)

Perish - "To die. ... To be destroyed; to come to nothing." (Webster's Dictionary 1828)

Destroy - "To demolish; to pull down; to separate the parts of an edifice, the union of which is necessary to constitute the thing. ... To ruin; to annihilate a thing by demolishing or by burning; as, to destroy a city. ...to bring to naught; ... In general, to put and end to;" (Webster's Dictionary 1828)

The destruction includes the body. (Mt 5:30)

Eternal fire does not burn eternally, its effect (destruction) is eternal. (Jude 1:7)

Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning today. (Lk 17:29, 2Pe 2:6)

A similar, relative use of the word "eternal" (Heb 6:2)

Some relative uses of the word "forever" (Ex 21:5,6, 1Sa 1:22,28, Jnh 2:5,6 compare Jnh 1:17)

The wicked are destroyed by fire (second death) (Ps 21:9, Isa 47:14, Da 7:11, Zep 1:18, Mal 4:1-3, Mt 13:40-42, Mt 25:41, Rev 20:9,14,15, Rev 21:8)

Devour - "To destroy; to consume with rapidity and violence." (Webster's Dictionary 1828)

Satan and his angels are destroyed by fire (Eze 28:17-19, Rev 20:10)

:thumbsup

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

The wicked are destroyed on the earth. (Dt 32:22, Eze 28:17-19, Mal 4:1-3, Rev 20:7-9)

The Earth is destroyed by fire, then recreated. (Isa 65:17, Zep 3:8, 2Pe 3:10-13, Rev 21:1,5)

Note that the greatest suffering of the wicked will be their own mental anguish. (Zep 1:14, Lk 13:24-28, Rev 6:15-17)

:thumbsup

Re: Does The Soul Sleep ?
 

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. (Eze 18:23,32, Eze 33:11)

For God, this destructive act is a "strange work". (Isa 28:21,22, 1Jn 4:8,16)

Consumption - "destruction by burning" (Webster's Dictionary 1828)

:thumbsup