Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I already said you lie and twist. How many times do I have to say it?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

How can I lie if you post it in black and white?

I need your study of 2 Peter 3 so I can be clear of your beliefs of what it is supposed to mean.

Did I attack Loren when he "sorta" dealt with it?

No.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean step off your high horse for a minute, you repeatedly accuse preterism of being allegorical, the fact is that while the passages read allegorically, that does not mean that they are entirely spiritual or allegorical. Take 2 Peter for example.
I would have you take time and consider how in Peter he uses the flood as a type of the world being destroyed. Did God destroy the physical planet with water, or the world (People) that sinned? Using the same type and example, God is not going to destroy the planet with fire, he destroyed a system, a religious system. That is what happened in 70ad when Rome destroyed the city and temple with fire and then dismantled the city not leaving one stone upon another.
I am sorry but I am loosing patience with people that are stuck in the traditions and teaching of men and will not study scripture from a proper frame of mind.
Even the parallel, when God brought the nation out of Egypt and put them in the land of Cannon was a type of the kingdom of God through out the world.
Even in the book of Revelation, their is sin in the world even with the New Jerusalem in the world. Read Rev. 21:24 if the nations that were saved walked in the light of New Jerusalem that means there were also sinner in the world.
As verse 27 attest to.

If you cannot see that the New Jerusalem is a spiritual kingdom and not a physical world power, in the manner that we think of as a world power. Yet all and the same Christ rules in the world within the New Jerusalem. He rules all those that are in the kingdom of God. And as the kingdom continues to grow it will continue to effect the world kingdoms as it has for two thousand years. Anyone that cannot see the positive effects of Christianity need only to look at statistics of the world through out the last 2 thousand years.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

See the reason you think this way is because of the way you understand scripture. You refuse to think outside the box that you have been indoctrinated in. I will ask you to do just one thing for me. Go to this web site and read the study on the 70th week of Daniel by Larry Smith.

http://www.rightlydividingtheword.com/studies.htm

Oh and please forget that Mike Blume's name is on this.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Loren, keep going....

I want to see you finish what you started.

Just tell me exactly what Peter was saying here, okay?......

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Loren, are these highlighted words something else or do they mean what they say?

Is heaven...Heaven?

Is Earth...Earth?

Is the elements..the elements?

Or do these 3 words mean something I dont see here?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Daniel 9:24-27
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now can you see the next verse recently fulfilled, Loren.(the fulfilling of the times of the Gentiles, my Gentile, born again brother?)



Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.



Did you know Israel is a nation Loren, and that Israel/Jews now possess the city of Jerusalem(since 1967)?

This must be accounted for when timelines of prophecy are made also...

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean, where did you answer this post?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

You already said? I think half this forum believes that? :lol

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Howbout you Benecasa...can you discipher Peters' code words?....LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Do you preterists rely on the Law being dissolved for preterism to work?

You bet you do!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean?

Where did you answer this post?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Oh, you actually did not know that the Law is still in effect for sinners, but not for saints!!!

You have a lot to learn!

I bet you think the Epistles like this are written to sinners huh....

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one.....No, it does not say that, does it?

Howbout this... 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

These are done away in 70ad huh?........LOL
.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean sure is annoying regardless of his position.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I am beating my head against a wall, Sean you think that your subterfuge will get you what you want. But instead you just keep twisting things up more and more.

Why did Jesus speak in parables? When he spoke in parables were they literal. And how were they literal?

Take the parable of the mustard seed.
Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

According to the way you would have us interpret scripture everything is literal. So the kingdom of God is going to be a tree. That real birds are going to nest in.

Sean who was Christ speaking about in this parable?
Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Why does he speak in riddles why not just say to the religious leaders that they are the ones that are going to be destroyed?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

And it's just laughed away.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Loren, when Jesus spoke a parable, the Bible says it is a parable.

What gives you the right to make half of everything He said a parable?

Now you even have Peter speaking in parables(in 2 Peter 3)...LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I am glad Paul did not speak in parables though, since he wrote half the New Testament(what a mess that would be)....LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

You missed the whole point of the question and you did not answer the question, just more subterfuge. Once again you want us to answer your questions that you ask and ask even when they have been answered on other threads, yet you will not answer our questions.

The point was even when Christ spoke in parables, there was a literal meaning, in Matt 21 he was speaking about the pharisees they even perceived this, but what they did not perceive was in what manner he was addressing them.

Prophecy of scripture uses the same kind of wording, figurative, speaking. Such as worlds being destroyed, does not mean literal heaven and earth. But world systems, governments, religious systems. Which is just what happened when Jerusalem was destroyed as per 2 Peter. Peter compares the world of Noah being destroyed by water, The fact is the earth was not destroyed but the unrighteous government and people were destroyed by water. But in 70ad the religious system of Judaism was destroyed and by fire, just as history tells us. Titus burned the city, then dismantled the city stone by stone.
But you don't want to see that because in blows your teaching of a future time when this earth is supposedly destroyed.
The problem is you cannot make your time lines jive.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I did not miss a thing Loren.

The fact is, you think half of what Jesus said was a parable, when the parables he spoke of were admitted parables.

You guys think Jesus was a riddle maker for preterism.

You guys have misinterpreted PLAIN teachings and called them parables or metaphors to justify your ideas.

You even think PETER was teaching parables or metaphors in 2 Peter 3.

Why cant you see that Loren? You are taking away from plain words to make them seem to be saying something else...that is just plain messed up!



You have absolutely no right to do that to the plain teachings of the Word of God.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean the commandments of the law specifically the 10 commandments were not done away with, Jesus specifically noted this when he said we are to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves, and on these two hang ALL the law and prophets.
The part you cannot seem to conceive is that the religious system that revolved around the temple and sacrifices were destroyed and the governing system that revolved around the religious leaders. The very ones that crucified Christ and did not repent, rather called let his blood be on our hands and the hands of our children.
And yes they were referred to as the heavens and earth as Mike gave you several OT passages several months ago, which you just scoffed at.

I read this passage to my wife tonight, 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
and ask her this, was the earth and heavens destroyed by the flood? Her answer was no. I then ask what was destroyed? Her answer was all those that were not in the ark.
I then read, 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
I ask if the earth was not destroyed in the flood, in Noah's day, then what is Peter referring to being destroyed by fire. Her answer, the people that do not obey God. Why is it my wife can see this but you cannot?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

What is messed up, is people believing the fairy tales propagated by dispensationalism and futurism. In the face of all the false prophesies, that have been made in the last 30 years alone about the rapture, tribulation, and anti-christ, that have not come to pass. Now the blood moons thing. All will fail to be realized and those teaching them will have mud on their face. Yet you still hold on to these teachings. Twisting the meaning of scripture to fit the next false prophet that thinks they have it all figured out.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

What are you saying here Loren, that the following verses are not total destruction of heaven and earth?...

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Did you ask your wife is she thought that this was talking about the destruction of the Jews, their religion and the Law?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

No Loren, "messed up" is when folks say that a verse in the Bible is not what it seems to be when reading it.

As if the planet ceased to exist in Noah's day. Did the world perish in Noah's day owe not, Sean? The world. World. W-o-r-l-d. What is the world Sean.?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Mike, a few were rescued in the flood....


A few will be rescued from the burning/disintegrating earth too...

Sean what is world? World. World.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Just like the Bible CLEARLY tells us.

The world perished. What is world?

What is the world?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?



Mike, tell us now, right here, what this means!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

You are making your point now!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Fix it Mike, I want you to fix it for us!

So what does it mean when Peter said the "world" perished in the flood?

What does the world perishing mean? World. Hello? Does it mean what it says? What's it say?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?




Mike, you have to show us what it means if you believe it is saying something else.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Mike, you MUST show us now!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Just come out of the closet Mike

What did Peter mean when he said the world perished? Did the world perish?