Apostolic Friends Forum - "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

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Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 607297)

Is this the same Ayers I just heard that Hassain Obama want's to appoint as his Secretary of Education? Brief association, give me a break. A man is known by the company he keeps.

It's funny that you choose to list his middle name and you can't even spell it.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTimey (Post 607422)

It's sad that this is such a refreshing statement.

you know, you're right. The 2000 election showed just how polarized our country had become. You would think after 9/11 that our country would be not so polarized.

However, I think our country has become even more polarized and I think money and class is at the root of the polarization.

Many folks blame the current Admin for the destruction of America's middle class. I'm not sure if we should blame any one, not sure if it does any good.

All (or definitely most) of the issues that divide the citizens of this country can be traced to money and class.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTimey (Post 607423)

It's funny that you choose to list his middle name and you can't even spell it.

No matter how you spell Barack hussein Obama, it sounds like trouble. I'm afraid if he get's in our country is going you know where in a you know what.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399 (Post 607427)

you know, you're right. The 2000 election showed just how polarized our country had become. You would think after 9/11 that our country would be not so polarized.

However, I think our country has become even more polarized and I think money and class is at the root of the polarization.

Many folks blame the current Admin for the destruction of America's middle class. I'm not sure if we should blame any one, not sure if it does any good.

All (or definitely most) of the issues that divide the citizens of this country can be traced to money and class.

More like greed and dependency. I'm not sure what you mean by class, this isn't India. Yes there are wealthy people and there are those who are too stinkin lazy to work that resents them and thinks the rich owes them a living. They'd rather sit around on their duff's and complain and collect their payments from the government or hope for a welfare system that will pay their rent, car payments, and medical. There are young guys who sit along the street begging for food. They could join the military like you and I and at least receive the benefits offered. I salute you for your efforts.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 607480)

It makes me beyond angry to ride through the streets of Baltimore on the way to my house and see what I see whenever I go up there!

I just wish time travel was possible, so I can personally escort them to the times of my Dad and Grandfolks so they can see what they are throwing away.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY (Post 607480)

More like greed and dependency. .

My reference to class is based off of the well-discussed phenomenon of the disappearance or destruction of America's middle class.

The "experts" have said that the last ten years or so has seen a significant shrinking of this group of Americans, with the divide between the haves and the have nots greater now than it has ever been in a long, long while.

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Can anybody tell me what the official government definition is for:

poverty
middle class
wealthy

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 607805)

Can anybody tell me what the official government definition is for:

poverty
middle class
wealthy

From Wikipedia:

There is considerable diversity among members of the middle class, who tend to overlap with each other. Overall, middle class persons, especially upper middle class individuals, are characterized by conceptualizing, creating and consulting. Thus, college education is one of the main indicators of middle class status. Largely attributed to the nature of middle class occupations, middle class values tend to emphasize independence, adherence to intrinsic standards, valuing innovation and respecting non-conformity.[6][2] Politically more active than other demographics, college educated middle class professionals are split.[7] Income varies considerably from near the national median to well in excess of $100,000.[5][2] Household income figures, however, do not always reflect class status and standard of living, as they are largely influenced by the number of income earners and fail to recognize household size. It is therefore possible for a large, dual-earner, lower middle class household to out-earn a small, one-earner, upper middle class household.[6] The middle classes are very influential, as they encompass the majority of voters, writers, teachers, journalists, and editors. Most societal trends in the US originate within the middle classes.[8]

link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP_Carl (Post 606702)

I am totally against the bailout and the empowerment of the treasury secretary.
Thanks to McCain-Feingold, we haven't been given any good choices.

I am familiar with the story of the Boston Massacre and Crispus Attucks. What is the pertinence here?

Are you familiar with the level of evil ascribed to redistributionist thinking by proponents of natural law? Do you understand how the Civil rights act of 1964 repealed natural law in America, and the voting rights act repealed our original form of government - a limited republic - and replaced it with democracy? Democracy being merely the tyranny of the majority, and not "freedom" as they are often associated together.

Coerced collectivism is wrong by a spectrum of moral codes. You may take your pick. It has failed everywhere that it has been attempted.

I consider every last Obama supporter to be either seriously deluded or an agent of communism. (There are a lot of the first category, thanks to the public schools) I think Obama hopes to wreck this country and attempt to create a socialist utopia. There is enough evidence to connect those dots.

However what he will have wrought is oppression and misery, as centrally-planned economies simply cannot react, and incentive is removed for innovation, excellence, and hard work. The fringes of this are already evidence in the wreckage of LBJ's "Great Society" welfare state, which has nearly demolished the nuclear family in the black community.

I recognize that the patronage system we see at work here at the end of the Bush administration is an equally proven civilization-ender. McCain's track record of bucking the party line is our only hope here. And Palin's willingness to root out corruption in her own party is a breath of fresh air.

Attempting to achieve equality of outcome, instead of equality of opportunity, is for dreamers and retards. Politics by guilt is a recipe for disaster. Politics by founding principles for me, please.

Lord Bless you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 606761)

OP, could you elaborate a little and also tell me what form of government you prefer? Do you oppose the Civil Rights Act and the voting acts?

I prefer a limited republic that empowers responsible citizens to govern themselves and achieve their full potential.

I recognize that much that was necessary and good was accomplished by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965. My opposition to the Civil Rights Act virtually mirrors that of Barry Goldwater; it is an issue of constitutionality.

I have included some links for you to read about economics and unintended consequences of policy. This first one is quite lengthy, but one of my favorites nevertheless:

Frederic Bastiat on What is seen and what is not seen

Our constitution codified natural rights and natural law. Natural Law, the Constitution, and Judicial Review

The True Meaning of Civil Rights

Barry Goldwater was not well understood. Here is
An interesting essay on Goldwater

Here is an excerpt from his speech explaining his vote from the floor of the United States Senate on June 18, 1964:

Quote:

I wish to make myself perfectly clear. The two portions of this bill to which I have constantly and consistently voiced objections, and which are of such overriding significance that they are determinative of my vote on the entire measure, are those which would embark the Federal government on a regulatory course of action with regard to private enterprise in the area of so-called 'public accommodations' and in the area of employment - to be more specific, Titles II and VII of the bill.

I find no constitutional basis for the exercise of Federal regulatory authority in either of these two areas; and I believe the attempted usurpation of such power to be a grave threat to the very essence of our basic system of government, namely, that of a constitutional republic in which fifty sovereign states have reserved to themselves and to the people those powers not specifically granted to the central or Federal government.

If it is the wish of the American people that the Federal government should be granted the power to regulate in these two areas and in the manner contemplated by this bill, then I say that the Constitution should be so amended by the people as to authorize such action in accordance with the procedures for amending the Constitution which that great document itself prescribes.

I say further that for this great legislative body to ignore the Constitution and the fundamental concepts of our governmental system is to act in a manner which could ultimately destroy the freedom of all American citizens, including the freedoms of the very persons whose feelings and whose liberties are the major subject of this legislation.

My basic objection to this measure is, therefore, constitutional.

I repeat again: I am unalterably opposed to discrimination of any sort and I believe that though the problem is fundamentally one of the heart, some law can help - but not law that embodies features like these, provisions which fly in the face of the Constitution and which require for their effective execution the creation of a police state. And so, because I am unalterably opposed to the destruction of our great system of government and the loss of our God-given liberties, I shall vote "No" on this bill.

My concern is not with this single legislative moment. My concern is not with a single faction of our citizens, no matter their power. My concern is with the fullness of this nation, with the fullness of freedom for everyone who lives in it and who will be born in it.

And I say that the general welfare must be spoken of now, despite the special appeals to special welfare. This is the time to attend to the liberties of all - not just to the demands of a few.

There is my concern. And this is where I stand.

If you keep Bastiat's postulates in mind while reading Goldwater's hauntingly accurate prophetic utterance in the bolded paragraph, you will come as close as you can get to understanding my viewpoint on government, social policy, and economics.

I had my wires crossed a bit, I think, when mentioning the 1965 voting rights act. I believe I was thinking of something else, and cannot now remember what it was. Upon review, I don't find much objectionable about that particular act.

I hope to convey and pursuade that natural law and lassez-faire are preferable to heavy-handed social policy, redistribution, and central control. I see the 1965 Civil Rights act as a touchstone along the journey to repeal natural rights for the individual, and replace them with collective rights for special interest groups. We are already starting to experience the tyranny of the majority. Look at the Kelo ruling.

There is a good article by Thomas Sowell regarding property rights. I'm haven't got a link for it and I need to go, but it contains a deep truism: "Neither 'property' nor the value of property is a physical thing . Property is a set of defined options."

Re: "Kill Him", "Treason", "Off With His Head!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399 (Post 607427)

I blame liberal elites, the media and Hollywood for the fracturing of America. They are the ones who have become shrill and damaging to America. They are the ones that are shouting about things like "the destruction of the middle class"

I sure would like someone to show me some data that says the middle class has been destroyed!. I work in a building with well over a thousand middle class people. Every last one of these folks have MORE not less purchasing power than the middle class folk from any previous generation.

this notion that the middle class has been or is being destroyed is laughable.