Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?



Teach us Mike, teach us!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

LOL Sean Sean, your trying to tell me that they thought like you did 2000 years ago. Your reading someone else mail and you have not done one bit of research or study to try to understand the way they thought in those days or understood things. All you can do is say "when folks say that a verse in the Bible is not what it seems to be when reading it". The problem is that the bible was not written to you or I specifically we must stop trying to read our time into scriptures, but rather read what it meant to those scripture was written to. The and only then can we understand and glean lessons that pertain to our life time.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?




I want your opinion of this verse Mike.

Anybody notice Sean can't answer this question?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I thought it was written to Christians of all ages Loren....bummer.

We must find our own book to read then.

Maybe Pearl of great price, or Doctrine and covenants for modern day believers?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

What else is new? He is not even reading the question.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Has any one noticed that Mike is TERRIFIED to post his belief of this passage....


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Because Mike will be run out of town when he tells us what he really thinks it is saying as follows....


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the Temple shall pass away with a great noise, and the Jewish religion shall melt with fervent heat, the Jews also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the Temple being on fire shall be dissolved, and the Jewish religion shall melt with fervent heat?


The reason Mike wont post his beliefs above, is like I have been saying...he is very embarrassed to be laughed at.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Here is what preterists believe folks!...




For instance, it is certainly relevant to show from Josephus that the Jews referred to the Temple at Jerusalem as "heaven and earth." [a] However, I will reserve this study for another time.

This study will examine Peter's declaration that Paul also wrote about the passing away of the elements of heaven and earth (2 Peter 3:15-16).

My argument is simple: Paul wrote the same thing about the passing of the "elements" of the world as did Peter (2 Peter 3:15-16). But Paul, in discussing the passing of the "elements" of the world, wrote exclusively of the passing away of the "elements" of Old Covenant Israel.

Therefore, Peter, in 2 Peter 3, wrote of the passing of the "elements" of Old Covenant Israel....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...6KTUtNbJm3CLrQ





That is the craziest thing you can do to a passage folks!!!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

This is what these guys dont want you to see!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Many belief systems try to woo you in with small ideas, then when you become a mush head...drop their big stuff on you!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Scripture was written to Christians of all ages "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Where does it say prophecy of scripture is given for modern day Christians? Yeah bummer to you.
That is the problem today people cannot rightly divide the word of those parts that were to those in that day and what is for all.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I am showing you the big stuff up front!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Well my friend, then if it not written to you, then dont worry about what it is saying.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

If I thought the New Testament was not written to ALL the church age, but just the 1st century church...I would not be here on AFF with you guys.

I would be doin my thing!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Wow you don't read the post addressed to you, and you don't read the web sites you reference, in you attempts to disprove fulfilled eschatology.

Hey keep posting those web sites, people will read them!!!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Can you read?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

More preterist craziness!!!...




Let me restate my argument: Paul wrote the same thing about the passing of the "elements" of the world as did Peter (2 Peter 3:15-16). But Paul, in discussing the passing of the "elements" of the world, wrote exclusively of the passing of the "elements" of Old Covenant Israel. Therefore, Peter, in 2 Peter 3, wrote of the passing of the "elements" of Old Covenant Israel.

To negate the power of this argument one must prove that Paul discussed the passing of two different kinds of "elements" and "worlds." Yet Paul, as shown above, when discussing the passing of the elements of the world speaks exclusively of the passing of the Old Covenant world.

The evidence presented in this brief article shows that the focus of Peter's — and thus the Bible's — is Covenantal and not Historical. Peter wrote just a few short years prior to the fall of Jerusalem, the center of the Old Covenant World. He and his readers were "looking for and hastening the coming of the Day of the Lord" (2 Peter 3:12). The Day was at hand!

Peter's Day of the Lord, with the destruction of the elements, came. As a result, believers in God today should not fear the future. We should live lives of confidence and righteousness as we dwell in the New Heavens and Earth of our Savior.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...6KTUtNbJm3CLrQ





These guys want YOU to be a re-interpreter of the Word of God too....the key is to simply not believe what it seems to be saying!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Yep, you think the N.T. was written to the 1st century saints only.....sad.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I have to post them, because you guys are much too embarrassed to tell AFF that you agree with them.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Oh what a day that will be,

when Mike posts what he believes,
when I see the look upon his face,
when the saints begin to laugh.
And he will asks us not to laugh,
as we fall out of our chairs,

Oh what a day, glorious day, that will be.:heeheehee

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Hey guys!...the "Earth"(Jews), the "Elements"(their religion) and "Temple"(their houses of worship) still exist....They did not BURN UP in 70ad......


Israel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the modern country. For other uses, see Israel (disambiguation).
Coordinates: 31°N 35°E

State of Israel
מְדִינַת יִשְׂרָאֵל (Hebrew)
دَوْلَة إِسْرَائِيل (Arabic)
Centered blue star within a horizontal triband Centered menorah surrounded by two olive branches
Flag Emblem
Anthem: "Hatikvah" (Hebrew)
"The Hope"
MENU0:00
Projection of Asia with Israel in green

Capital
and largest city Jerusalem (disputed)
31°47′N 35°13′E
Official languages
Hebrew Arabic
Ethnic groups (2014)
74.9% Jewish
20.7% Arab
4.3% others
Demonym Israeli
Government Unitary parliamentary republic
- President Reuven Rivlin
- Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Legislature Knesset
Independence
- Declared 14 May 1948
- Recognition 1 May 1949
Area
- Total 20,770 / 22,072[note 1] km2 (153rd)
8,019 / 8,522 sq mi
- Water (%) 2.12 (440 km2 / 170 mi2)
Population
- 2014 estimate 8,238,300[1] (96th)
- 2008 census 7,412,200[2] (99th)
- Density 387.63/km2 (34th)
1,004.00/sq mi
GDP (PPP) 2014 estimate
- Total $286.840 billion[3]
- Per capita $35,658[3] (25th)
GDP (nominal) 2014 estimate
- Total $305.707 billion [3]
- Per capita $38,004[3] (25th)
Gini (2008) 39.2[4]
medium · 66th
HDI (2013) Steady 0.888[5]
very high · 19th
Currency Israeli new shekel (₪‎) (ILS [6])
Time zone Israel Standard Time (UTC+2)
- Summer (DST) Israel Summer Time (UTC+3)
Date format
dd-mm-yyyy (CE)
Drives on the right
Calling code +972
ISO 3166 code IL
Internet TLD .il
Israel (/ˈɪzreɪəl/ or /ˈɪzriːəl/; Hebrew: יִשְׂרָאֵל‎ Yisrā'el; Arabic: إِسْرَائِيل‎ Isrāʼīl), officially the State of Israel (Hebrew: מְדִינַת יִשְׂרָאֵל‎ Medīnat Yisrā'el [mediˈnat jisʁaˈʔel] ( listen); Arabic: دولة إِسْرَائِيل‎ Dawlat Isrāʼīl [dawlat ʔisraːˈʔiːl]), is a country in West Asia, situated at the southeastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea and the northern shore of the Gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea. It shares land borders with Lebanon to the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan on the east, the Palestinian territories (which are claimed by the State of Palestine and are partially controlled by Israel) comprising the West Bank and Gaza Strip[7] to the east and west, respectively, and Egypt to the southwest. It contains geographically diverse features within its relatively small area.[8][9] Israel's financial center is Tel Aviv,[10] while Jerusalem is both its self-designated, though unrecognised by the United Nations,[11] capital and the most populous individual city under the country's governmental administration. Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem is internationally disputed.[note 2][12]

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the adoption and implementation of the Partition Plan for Mandatory Palestine. This UN plan specified borders for new Arab and Jewish states and also specified an area of Jerusalem and its environs which was to be administered by the UN under an international regime.[13][14] The end of the British Mandate for Palestine was set for midnight on 14 May 1948. That day, David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel," which would start to function from the termination of the mandate.[15][16][17] The borders of the new state were not specified in the declaration.[14][18] Neighboring Arab armies invaded the former Palestinian mandate on the next day and fought the Israeli forces.[19][20] Israel has since fought several wars with neighboring Arab states,[21] in the course of which it has occupied the West Bank, Sinai Peninsula (1956–57, 1967–82), part of South Lebanon (1982–2000), Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights. It extended its laws to the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem, but not the West Bank.[22][23][24][25] Efforts to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict have not resulted in peace. However, peace treaties between Israel and both Egypt and Jordan have successfully been signed. Israel’s occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the world's longest military occupation in modern times.[note 3][27]

The population of Israel, as defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, was estimated in 2014 to be 8,146,300 people. It is the world's only Jewish-majority state; 6,212,000 citizens, or 74.9% of Israelis, are designated as Jewish. The country's second largest group of citizens are denoted as Arabs, with 1,718,400 people (including the Druze and most East Jerusalem Arabs).[28][29] The great majority of Israeli Arabs are settled Muslims, with smaller but significant numbers of semi-settled Negev Bedouins; the rest are Christians and Druze. Other minorities include Maronites, Samaritans, Dom people and Roma, Black Hebrew Israelites, other Sub-Saharan Africans,[30] Armenians, Circassians, Vietnamese boat people, and others. Israel also hosts a significant population of non-citizen foreign workers and asylum seekers from Africa and Asia.[31]

In its Basic Laws, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and Democratic State.[32] Israel is a representative democracy[33] with a parliamentary system, proportional representation and universal suffrage.[34][35] The Prime Minister serves as head of government and the Knesset serves as Israel's legislative body. Israel is a developed country and an OECD member,[36] with the 37th-largest economy in the world by nominal gross domestic product as of 2014. The country benefits from a highly skilled workforce and is among the most educated countries in the world with the one of the highest percentage of its citizens holding a tertiary education degree.[37][38] The country has the highest standard of living in the Middle East and the fifth highest in Asia,[39][40][41] and has the one of the highest life expectancies in the world.[42]







Jews are an ethnoreligious group[21] and include those born Jewish and converts to Judaism. In 2012, the world Jewish population was estimated at about 14 million, or roughly 0.2% of the total world population.[22] About 42% of all Jews reside in Israel and another 42% reside in North America, with most of the remainder living in Europe, and other minority groups spread throughout South America, Asia, Africa, and Australia.[23]





Synagogues of the world....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Buh_3NegVMlwdQ

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I got a funny feeling that Peter was not talking about the Jews here....LOL

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The Jews, their religion and their places of worship burning up with fervent heat?.....NOT!







LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Wonder if Sean is so "funny" to his wife when she burns dinner.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean has no respect for anyone except those who agree with him. Bad form.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Didn't you know, she makes him cook?

She tells the how to what for in that place!

:heeheehee

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I guess I'd be frustrated, too. Take her out to Domino's, I hear they have a nice new crust out.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

BTW,

One of the most learned and devout men of the Apostolic movement recognized by scholars world wide as a respected theologian.( across denominational lines. )

Doctor Marvin D. Treece believed and taught the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the church.

And planet earth being consumed with fire literally.

Called of God and preaching full time at age 14.

Professor of the Dead sea scrolls society.

One of 6 in the world that spoke fluently the most ancient language Sumerian.

Along with being fluent in ancient Greek New Testament times, Hebrew and Aramaic.

And above all an anointed man of God.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

All that and still missed some vital Biblical facts. Pretty much to be expected when one starts out with a preconceived idea and force scriptures to fit that idea. I mean no disrespect to Bro. Treece, but just my observation.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Didn't he also believe in women preachers?

Amazing how men can be ever-learning but never able to see some truths.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

She is German, if I laugh at her cooking I will end up in the oven!

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

I am the head of my house!!!!


But she is the neck that turns the head.....LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Aren't they famous for black bread? Centuries of men afraid to speak up...

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

You mean, SQUEAK UP?...LOL

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Funny, how Sean doesn't know what the "WORLD" perishing means.

Let's keep in mind that it was only year ago that Sean backed out of eschatology discussions because he was clueless on the subject. He was cornered by Loren and called out on the carpet for his cutting and pasting of other people's material that he had never read prior to posting.

Sean, has no credibility whatsoever and he posted himself that he only does this out of malice and not to defend the faith. Sean couldn't have a real face to face discussion on eschatology without the aid of an internet connection. If he did do a debate in person he would end up having a melt down like you all see him do here on the forum.

So, Sean, what perished in Noah's flood? The planet?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Sean, never answers the posts (please readers go back and examine) that Brother Blume is posting to Sean. Why? Because Sean, doesn't have the faintest idea as to what he is supposed to believe as far as eschatology goes. He really doesn't have a clue as to why Brother Blume is even asking him the question concerning the "perishing world" because in Sean's head this isn't about truth or defending truth. It is about Sean winning an argument against something he sees as bad. It is just like his thread[s] concerning the KJV, and the Bible in its original languages, he doesn't care what "the" truth is, but what he believes the truth is. therefore you can have a thread go on for pages and pages with this crazy person never answering the questions you post for him. As I have stated time and time again, Sean's Bible studies (if he really has any) must be gladiator school when someone challenges him on his fabrications. One day, he is going to press the wrong button and someone be it man, woman, or child are going to kick a mud hole into his face. Because if he acts this way in person, then Jesus has been very kind to keep Sean boy, from a epic beating. :)

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Looks like the Blood Moons failed to bring something forward, must be a lot of individuals eating crow with egg on their faces. Thank God no Apostolic minister ever preached that Blood Moon Stuff over their pulpit. :nod

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

That's not what I asked you Sean, Jesus says not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until Heaven and Earth pass. Don't you know how to read? Don't you know how to answer when someone gives you the scripture, chapter and verse? Not one jot or tittle shall pass until heaven and earth passes with everything completed. Read the scripture again.

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth shall pass away, not even one iota, nor one point, shall pass away from the law, until everything should happen.

Oh, and let's not forget the 17th century English....

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Where is the temple, priesthood, and animal sacrifices? Sean, every jot and tittle was supposed to be still in effect until all be completed? Sean, no one on the planet earth keeps the Law system as prescribed in the Hebrew Bible.

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

Didn't Marvin Treece believe that angels (as well as demons) flew UFOs?

Also when was Brother Treece a professor of the Dead sea scrolls society? You are talking about the DSSS with Norman Golb, Raphael Golb, Lawrence Schiffman, and Hershel Shanks (from Biblical Archaeological Review) ?

Re: Scoffers on AFF
 

No your talking about another gentleman from the same state. I'd hate to name him and risk damaging the reputation, of a man of God that has passed.

I apologize, That was a cut and paste from something I had written unedited. He was a Contributor".

He made contributions to the Library of Congress with translations of the Chester Beatty Manuscripts.
Among them Papyrus 46, it is one of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts in Greek, written on papyrus, with its 'most probable date' between 175 and 225. Some leaves are part of the Chester Beatty Biblical Papyri, and others are in the University of Michigan Papyrus Collection

Respectfully