Apostolic Friends Forum
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Baptizing Minors... (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=13697)

TreyKerux 03-30-2008 09:44 PM
Baptizing Minors...
 
Do you have a form letter to the parents after the young person has expressed interest in baptism and a permission slip...even if the parent it going to be present at the baptism(just for liability sake... some nuts out there will lie their tales off if they think they can get some money)? Care to share said letters/slips? lol


Also what type of things would you say when you goto the parents and talk to them about their young person wanting to get baptized?

I ask all of this because a young person in my group wants to get baptized and Pastor told me to "follow proper protocols" and when asked to clarify he just mentioned a slip and a letter and taking a trip to the parents house....

I'm excited about the first person in my youth group to get baptized....and I wanna make sure everything is kosher as we dunk her in Jesus Name ;)

SDG 03-30-2008 09:49 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyKerux (Post 428170)
Do you have a form letter to the parents after the young person has expressed interest in baptism and a permission slip...even if the parent it going to be present at the baptism(just for liability sake... some nuts out there will lie their tales off if they think they can get some money)? Care to share said letters/slips? lol


Also what type of things would you say when you goto the parents and talk to them about their young person wanting to get baptized?

I ask all of this because a young person in my group wants to get baptized and Pastor told me to "follow proper protocols" and when asked to clarify he just mentioned a slip and a letter and taking a trip to the parents house....

I'm excited about the first person in my youth group to get baptized....and I wanna make sure everything is kosher as we dunk her in Jesus Name ;)
:tissue

I will bite my tongue .... at least for the next few minutes.

jaxfam6 03-30-2008 09:49 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyKerux (Post 428170)
Do you have a form letter to the parents after the young person has expressed interest in baptism and a permission slip...even if the parent it going to be present at the baptism(just for liability sake... some nuts out there will lie their tales off if they think they can get some money)? Care to share said letters/slips? lol


Also what type of things would you say when you goto the parents and talk to them about their young person wanting to get baptized?

I ask all of this because a young person in my group wants to get baptized and Pastor told me to "follow proper protocols" and when asked to clarify he just mentioned a slip and a letter and taking a trip to the parents house....

I'm excited about the first person in my youth group to get baptized....and I wanna make sure everything is kosher as we dunk her in Jesus Name ;)
Are we practicing Judaism in our baptisms now?? Is there a proper Jewish way to baptize? AM I BAPTIZED WRONG???? :reaction:reaction:tantrum

freeatlast 03-30-2008 09:54 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428175)
:tissue

I will bite my tongue .... at least for the next few minutes.
Bite it over what Daniel..... the word Kosher came to mind to me.

If we did a Kosher baptism it would problably not resemble any baptisms any of us have ever witnessed.

Should we get the thread going again on a proper ritual early apostolic church baptisms?

SDG 03-30-2008 09:55 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 428176)
Are we practicing Judaism in our baptisms now?? Is there a proper Jewish way to baptize? AM I BAPTIZED WRONG???? :reaction:reaction:tantrum
Well there is the .....

Oneness Pentecostal Sabbatarian group originating in China called the True Jesus Church.

This is from their articles of faith:

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.

SDG 03-30-2008 09:56 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I'd imagine if ... salvation was in the balance ... I wouldn't worry about having the proper paper work.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428175)
:tissue

I will bite my tongue .... at least for the next few minutes.
It really would be a shame if you turned this into a thread debating the importance or necessity of baptism.

Why not instead just put your masterful people skills to work and advise the man on how to handle unsaved parents? Instead of it being in any way confrontational, this is a great opportunity to address people and include them in their child's conversion to Christianity. It's a wonderful thing!

What you believe about baptism should be irrelevant to this thread, because if a Christian believes something to be vital to salvation, they are obligated to pursue it with unbelievers in the hopes of leading them to Christ.

So...do you have any sage advice? :coffee2

freeatlast 03-30-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428181)
Well there is the .....

Oneness Pentecostal Sabbatarian group originating in China called the True Jesus Church.

This is from their articles of faith:

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
and footwashing follows if I remeber corerectly

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:01 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428185)
I'd imagine if ... salvation was in the balance ... I wouldn't worry about having the proper paper work.
So you would baptize a child without their parent's permission or approval? I would think one would at least try to attain it, before going the "saved at any cost" route.

I think it is important to include parents, saved or not, in their children's spiritual experiences. The church would risk setting itself at odds with the parents by leaving them out of the picture, when in fact, it can be a great opportunity to get to know them and to invite them along.

freeatlast 03-30-2008 10:03 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 428190)
It really would be a shame if you turned this into a thread debating the importance or necessity of baptism.

Why not instead just put your masterful people skills to work and advise the man on how to handle unsaved parents? Instead of it being in any way confrontational, this is a great opportunity to address people and include them in their child's conversion to Christianity. It's a wonderful thing!

What you believe about baptism should be irrelevant to this thread, because if a Christian believes something to be vital to salvation, they are obligated to pursue it with unbelievers in the hopes of leading them to Christ.

So...do you have any sage advice? :coffee2
So true MissB....I am so glad to hear of a young un from a youth group wanting to commit to Christ.


just make an appointment to speak with them and share with them their daughters new found faith and what a public declaration of baptism menas to the church.

I'd get their permission. Often when this happens at our church te whole family shows up with guests to witness their childs baptism

grace_seeker 03-30-2008 10:04 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428181)
Well there is the .....

Oneness Pentecostal Sabbatarian group originating in China called the True Jesus Church.

This is from their articles of faith:

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
I met this group in Heidelberg Germany in 1982. I found the highlighted of interest. They do NOT beleive in baptizing backwards like we do. They consider it as sacriligious as not baptizing in Jesus name.

SDG 03-30-2008 10:04 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Well ... Miss B ...

In this dilemma on how to approach the parents one might have to decide which of these two verses takes precedence, especially if they refuse to grant permission:

Acts 2:38
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

or

Exodus 20:12

12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

jaxfam6 03-30-2008 10:04 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428181)
Well there is the .....

Oneness Pentecostal Sabbatarian group originating in China called the True Jesus Church.

This is from their articles of faith:

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
Bro Daniel will ya make sure I have been dunked proper?? I am an adult so I do not need Parental Permission. If I have my boys redunked will you require my wife and I to sign papers that will not hold you liable for anything?

SDG 03-30-2008 10:06 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 428197)
So true MissB....I am so glad to hear of a young un from a youth group wanting to commit to Christ.


just make an appointment to speak with them and share with them their daughters new found faith and what a public declaration of baptism menas to the church.

I'd get their permission. Often when this happens at our church te whole family shows up with guests to witness their childs baptism
Sounds pretty straight forward.

jaxfam6 03-30-2008 10:08 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyKerux (Post 428170)
Do you have a form letter to the parents after the young person has expressed interest in baptism and a permission slip...even if the parent it going to be present at the baptism(just for liability sake... some nuts out there will lie their tales off if they think they can get some money)? Care to share said letters/slips? lol


Also what type of things would you say when you goto the parents and talk to them about their young person wanting to get baptized?

I ask all of this because a young person in my group wants to get baptized and Pastor told me to "follow proper protocols" and when asked to clarify he just mentioned a slip and a letter and taking a trip to the parents house....

I'm excited about the first person in my youth group to get baptized....and I wanna make sure everything is kosher as we dunk her in Jesus Name ;)

I am sorry, I am not making fun of you. I am a bit surprised that your pastor did not give you this information and advice on what he wanted done in such a case. I do agree that parents should be consulted when they are not in church and their children want baptized. I think it should be the pastors job to speak with said parents. His lack of doing so and putting it all in your hands is in my mind disturbing.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:08 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyKerux (Post 428170)
Do you have a form letter to the parents after the young person has expressed interest in baptism and a permission slip...even if the parent it going to be present at the baptism(just for liability sake... some nuts out there will lie their tales off if they think they can get some money)? Care to share said letters/slips? lol


Also what type of things would you say when you goto the parents and talk to them about their young person wanting to get baptized?

I ask all of this because a young person in my group wants to get baptized and Pastor told me to "follow proper protocols" and when asked to clarify he just mentioned a slip and a letter and taking a trip to the parents house....

I'm excited about the first person in my youth group to get baptized....and I wanna make sure everything is kosher as we dunk her in Jesus Name ;)
Trey, I would think that getting parents to sign a permission slip would immediately make them a little nervous. It's like you're having to sign a waiver of liability in case the kid drowns in the baptistry or something. Especially if you send the note home with the child without a personal visit. But if your pastor has a "slip" and a "letter" that is proper protocol for minors with unsaved parents, then I suggest you get a copy as soon as possible. :) Is it to include them? Or for insurance purposes? Just curious....

I think the best thing to do is to call and ask if there is a convenient time you can drop by, and then let the parents know that their child has expressed a desire to be baptized, that you are happy to comply, but you didn't want to proceed without them, since its such an important event. (Something along those lines.) Other than that, I think the child needs to express his or her own desire to be baptized to his parents. If you speak too much, it will look like you're strong arming the child. If kids really want to do something, they can usually talk their parents into it.

freeatlast 03-30-2008 10:11 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
If the parents won't give permission for their minor child to be baptized, I would not go against their wishes.

Nor would I be at all concerned that God would not grant her eternal life because of this.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:12 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428201)
Well ... Miss B ...

In this dilemma on how to approach the parents one might have to decide which of these two verses takes precedence, especially if they refuse to grant permission:

Acts 2:38
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

or

Exodus 20:12

12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
It's possible to do both, Daniel. :) Prayer and fasting can go a long way toward moving mountains. And a little bit of friendliness on the part of the Youth Pastor will probably take care of the rest.

grace_seeker 03-30-2008 10:13 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 428213)
If the parents won't give permission for their minor child to be baptized, I would not go against their wishes.

Nor would I be at all concerned that God would not grant her eternal life because of this.
Amen to that!

Sept5SavedTeen 03-30-2008 10:13 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I was baptized in secret at 15...

What can happen LEGALLY if a young person is baptized without parental consent?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

SDG 03-30-2008 10:13 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 428214)
It's possible to do both, Daniel. :) Prayer and fasting can go a long way toward moving mountains. And a little bit of friendliness on the part of the Youth Pastor will probably take care of the rest.

Miss B ... I'm offering a likely scenario ... and I think it brings a valid question as how the Church would proceed if the answer is NO.

What if the answer is NO ... even after prayer and fasting.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:14 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428218)
Miss B ... I'm offering a likely scenario ... and I think it brings a valid question as how the Church would proceed if the answer is NO.

What if the answer is NO ... even after prayer and fasting.
Then it would depend on the age and maturity of the child. A 10 year old, for instance, IMO is too young to make an autonomous decision. An 18 year old, however, is quite another story, even if legally still a minor. (But not a minor child.)

I believe God holds autonomous adults responsible for their decisions, not children. Although He certainly recognizes spiritual decisions on the part of children, I do not believe He will hold a decision "against them" if they choose to obey their parents in opposition to scriptural mandates.

freeatlast 03-30-2008 10:16 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 428213)
If the parents won't give permission for their minor child to be baptized, I would not go against their wishes.

Nor would I be at all concerned that God would not grant her eternal life because of this.
Strangely enough, in our country, if this same child wanted an abotion she could travel to a nieghboring state and obtain one WITHOUT any parental notification.


Awwww........ What a country!

missdkendall 03-30-2008 10:17 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I was 6 years old when I was baptized in Jesus' name!!!!! I received the Holy Ghost shortly following.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:18 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 428222)
Strangely enough, in our country, if this same child wanted an abotion she could travel to a nieghboring state and obtain one WITHOUT any parental notification.


Awwww........ What a country!
That is a sad fact, isn't it? *sigh*

jaxfam6 03-30-2008 10:23 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I still think something is wrong with the fact that the pastor did not give this person anything more than a vague reference to slips of paper and doing it right. Why is HE not involved in this? Why is HE not taking the lead and SHOWING or TEACHING this person what they should be doing in such a case? I personally have a problem with that. He is the pastor of the church for crying out loud, he should be taking the lead on this and talking with the family. That to me is a lack of care or concern and a lack of leadership.
Of course this is just all MY opinion.

SDG 03-30-2008 10:27 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 428219)
Then it would depend on the age and maturity of the child. A 10 year old, for instance, IMO is too young to make an autonomous decision. An 18 year old, however, is quite another story, even if legally still a minor. (But not a minor child.)

I believe God holds autonomous adults responsible for their decisions, not children. Although He certainly recognizes spiritual decisions on the part of children, I do not believe He will hold a decision "against them" if they choose to obey their parents in opposition to scriptural mandates.
How would you approach the child if you did not get parental permission?

Do you tell the child their salvation is not jeopardy based on their parent's decision?

Do you think this child will need reassurance until age 18 that they are rapture ready despite not being baptized in Jesus name?

Hoovie 03-30-2008 10:34 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I just want to say I WOULD BE VERY ANGRY if my children were baptised without my knowledge regardless of the mode, method or denomination responsible!

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:36 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428232)
How would you approach the child if you did not get parental permission?

Do you tell the child their salvation is not jeopardy based on their parent's decision?

Do you think this child will need reassurance until age 18 that they are rapture ready despite not being baptized in Jesus name?
Why are you asking ME questions? Didn't I ask YOU for sage advice? :D

SDG 03-30-2008 10:36 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 428237)
I just want to say I WOULD BE VERY ANGRY if my children were baptised without my knowledge regardless of the mode, method or denomination responsible!
Me too.

How does one justify this type of secret baptism?

Jehoram 03-30-2008 10:38 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
I think parental consent is an absolute necessity.

We have forms for that at our church.

I have never had a parent object.

Sept5SavedTeen 03-30-2008 10:39 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428242)
How does one justify this type of secret baptism?
Uh... I was headed to hell...

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

SDG 03-30-2008 10:39 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 428241)
Why are you asking ME questions? Didn't I ask YOU for sage advice? :D
I think they're are valid questions since Acts 2:38 is preached very hard in some churches ... as are the eternal consequences for not obeying it ..

As a child I was hyper-aware of missing the rapture ... for not being obedient to God's Word ...

Children ... especially those in concrete operations see things in black and white ...

I'm thinking how does one deal w/ the young psyche in this hypothetical scenario...

Your input, I'm sure, will be sagacious.

Jehoram 03-30-2008 10:41 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Did I miss something?

I thought the issue was parental consent, not how abusive the church is when it baptizes minors.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:41 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 428237)
I just want to say I WOULD BE VERY ANGRY if my children were baptised without my knowledge regardless of the mode, method or denomination responsible!
Me, too. :) But that would be because I want to be a part of the event--not because I don't want it to happen. What do you do about parents who may be combative or disagreeable? (We don't know that is the case with the parents in question, btw.)

Since I believe baptism to be very important, I would probably exhaust every effort to persuade the parents, and if they still wouldn't give permission, I'd probably pray about it until I was either endued with wisdom or God did the persuading for me.

I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable going against the parents of any minor child.

MissBrattified 03-30-2008 10:44 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 428246)
I think they're are valid questions since Acts 2:38 is preached very hard in some churches ... as are the eternal consequences for not obeying it ..

As a child I was hyper-aware of missing the rapture ... for not being obedient to God's Word ...

Children ... especially those in concrete operations see things in black and white ...

I'm thinking how does one deal w/ the young psyche in this hypothetical scenario...

Your input I'm sure will be sagacious.
There's nothing wrong with a child being "hyper-aware" of being obedient to God's Word. :)

Hoovie 03-30-2008 10:46 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
The baptism of small children.

This is a question I wrestle with even with both parents consenting.

In my research, I have reopened the possiblity of a valid infant baptism - something thousands of my Radical Reformer predecessors rejected and gave their lives for.

SDG 03-30-2008 10:46 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 428252)
There's nothing wrong with a child being "hyper-aware" of being obedient to God's Word. :)
I didn't say there was ... just curious on how this would be explained to the child who could be emotionally traumatized thinking they are hell-bound ...

that's pretty serious ... if you ask me.

Your thoughts.

jaxfam6 03-30-2008 10:49 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Ego (Post 428248)
Did I miss something?

I thought the issue was parental consent, not how abusive the church is when it baptizes minors.
Nope you got it for the most part
the original was about if there is paper work that needs to be signed by parents and what is the KOSHER way to go about baptizing especially minors.

Everyone seems concerned with rather they should just baptize without permission if the parents decline to give it.

I still want to know why the pastor is putting this all off onto the youth leaders and not taking an active role in getting permission and TEACHING the youth leaders how he feels it should be done. Doesn't seem that he even gave them paperwork just told him the need to get the parents permission and make sure all was in order. Why not take an active role in it since YOU ARE THE PASTOR?????? I am still wondering why that has not been a problem for anyone.

mizpeh 03-30-2008 10:49 PM
Re: Baptizing Minors...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 428253)
The baptism of small children.

This is a question I wrestle with even with both parents consenting.

In my research, I have reopened the possiblity of a valid infant baptism - something thousands of my Radical Reformer predecessors rejected and gave their lives for.
Well, if you believe we are born with the guilt of Adam's original sin then infant baptism would be appropriate. :reaction


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.