Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

A member of parliament in the Netherlands who has been charged with "insulting" Muslims says he fears he will be found guilty and sent to prison in only a few months.

An appeals court on Wednesday overturned a previous decision by prosecutors not to charge Geert Wilders, and ordered that he stand trial.

Wilders, who produced a controversial film that was highly critical of the Koran last year, says he faces a maximum of two years in prison if convicted. He said he had expected to be charged, and he has retained legal assistance from a U.S.-based nonprofit to help him defend himself.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481665,00.html

Can this happen here? Do you think it will? I have to ask, how did it come to this in a place like the Netherlands? How about Austrailia where a preacher was charged with crimes for speaking against Islam? How did Islam get so strong in a nation that was never Islamic to begin with? What other nations started out "non-islamic" but ended up that way? Lebanon used to be a Christian nation..

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

reminds me of a dream that I had few yrs ago

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

It definitely will happen here one day.
I'm certain of it.

The Netherlands, Australia, etc, are more liberal than we are here.
Canada is too, and they have pretty serious "hate-speech" laws that have been used against preachers.

The US is on it's way to becoming similar to Canada and Europe politically and socially.
That same kind of junk will come here one day... and soon, if groups like the ACLU have their way.

Bible-based Christianity is on it's way to becoming Public Enemy #1 in America and around the world.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

In my opinion, just quoting certain portions of the Scriptures will be considered "hate speech" and will be subject to prosecution by law in this country in time.

Right now we have certain crimes considered "hate crimes." The only reason the crime is considered a "hate crime" is because it is committed against certain groups designated "minorities."

In other words, murdering a person of another race, gender, or sexual preference is a more serious crime than murdering someone of your own race, gender, or sexual preference.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

I've got mixed feelings. While I don't think it's right to limit speech... I think we must take responsibility for what we say.

For example the "hate speech" situation. I remember a previous pastor of mine getting on a rant and using the word "f@gs" while preaching. It was a virtual hate fest with people cheering him on as he attacked their godlessness and their "agenda" etc. What bothered me is that he wasn't preaching against sin, he was preaching against people. These are just sinners like the rest of us. I think issues such as homosexuality are very sensitive and a responsible minister should address it with sensitivity that shows a love for the sinner, but a warning regarding the sin. I think some subjects shouldn't be taught from the pulpit. Some things are better discussed frankly in a more private environment strictly to adults without the emotionalism. I remember thinking, "My son will grow up thinking it's okay to call gay people 'f@gs'." That was disturbing to me. So while I think pastors should address various sins, I think it should be done responsibly.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Aquila, he had to prove that he is against homosexuality. Making vulgar comments is the proof. :)

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I respectfully disagree. Sin needs to appear to be exceedingly sinful.

The words queer, fag and pervert are perfect descriptions of sodomites.

I do see where your coming from.. I just totally disagree.

Queers don't want sympathy they want acceptance.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

The bible does not use the words "queer" and "fag" to describe them.

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I think "hate speech" should only be direct calls for violance like "Kill gays"

People have to take responsibility for their own actions. That is part of our problem in America we want to blame someone else. Blame whites. Blame Bush. Blame Christians. Blame republicans

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BTW the bible does not call them gays either....even gays call themselves queers lol

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Know how that works? Like the N-word. Can't use it if ya ain't one.

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I don't think they are good at all! I grew up with "gay" meaning happy, "queer" meaning odd or strange and "fag" meaning ciggarette. I don't know why the original meanings of perfectly good words had to be messed with so that now it means homosexual.:foottap

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Sadly many think that way. Me thinks the man doth protest too much. ;)

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I hear ya, your definately entitled to your view.

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I understand how gay and queer have been applied.... but I do not see how a cigarette reference applies....

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

I agree. However, wisdom is justified of her children. Offensive words will offend and odds are you'll loose your listeners because all they'll remember is the offensive words you used, not the gospel you preached. You can address certain subjects in a way becoming a man of God, and perhaps some subjects should be addressed in a format where children aren't present and such can be discussed with frankness among adults.

Sorry, I disagree. The terms "queer" and "fag" are pejoratives and are terms unbecoming a man of God. I wouldn't expect him to call a bull-headed woman a "b-tch" over the pulpit, nor would I expect him to call someone an "a-hole". They are perverts, that's fine. One could call them "sodomites", it's a biblical term (though technically the term "sodomite" is used specifically for male temple prostitutes). One could even call them "abominable" or their lifestyle an "abomination", for it is. However, the terms "queer" and "fag" are pejoratives I don't want my son hearing or using, especially from hearing a man who is supposed to be a man of God. I told my wife then and there, the first time I hear our son say something of that nature I'm teaching him NEVER to use those terms again... and then I'm going to personally show the pastor that he has no right treating my son's ears like a garbage can. Preach the TRUTH...don't preach hate. Preach the TRUTH, don't teach my kid to curse. Address sin and teach us to hate sin, but don't slander sinners and teach us to hate people. Some men need the backbone to draw a line with pastors like this. When I told him what I thought, I did so using some very stern words explaining what I thought of it, he turned white and apologized. Had he even tried to justify himself I would have given him a father's message he would have never forgotten. This is my son we're talking about. He can teach his kid to talk like that and treat people that way if he likes. But don't DARE teach my kid to act like that.

I honestly don't think you see where I'm coming from yet. I do think you'll understand after reading the above portion of this post. And... I'm willing to wager you'll even agree with me.

Every sinner wants acceptance. Welcome to a fallen world. Point is, they're people. Sinners. We're still here to minister to them, love them, and preach to them... while also underscoring the danger and seriousness of their sin. I assure you, you're not going to save a sinner by calling them a "queer" or a "fag". And I'll go as far as to say that if you have visitors who are straight that happen to have an ounce of class, the moment you use terms like that, they'll be offended at the fact that you said them over the pulpit in a church... and they'll most likely not come back. How many souls did that save? Oh, you might get some hate filled redneck shouting in the back who has a secret homosexual fetish... but he's probably a Grand Wizard in the local Klu Klux Klan... hate and slander are his forte.

What ever happened to preachers who had honor, dignity, and class; who were gentlemen that you wanted your kids to emulate? Holiness is more than dress codes. True holiness also manifests itself in Christian conduct.

The fact of the matter is... too many men want to preach whatever will inflame the crowd... but they don't want to own up to what they say or be responsible for the words they use. We should preach truth, but a lot of responsibility comes with that.

No offense intended here, I just hope you see my point bro.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

I've heard it said that what a preacher preaches against the most is his own vice.

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Christian men and ministers should have a touch of class and be gentlemen who use words worthy of being called "Christian" when behind the pulpit. We don't take our ques from the gay community.

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I've heard that too. I think that's true in some cases but not for the majority.

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I'm sorry I used some strong words guys, but it upset me when I heard a preacher talk like that over the pulpit.

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You could never offend me. I do see where your coming from. Just do not totally agree.

I'm one of them unclassy Pentecostals. The words queers and fag is very very rarely used in my home church.. but every once in awhile it is the verbage the Bishop chooses to use.. and I amen it and agree with it. You can't patty cake that spirit. I'm not really interested in going on discussing homo's. God bless.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Can't patty-cake that spirit? Agreed!

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Then you need to be defending Michelle Malkin's right of free speech, instead of condemning her as a racist.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Hey bro, you know I love ya.

I'd never amen or agree with it. I treat it just like he called a woman a "b--ch" over the pulpit. Someone has to have some intestinal fortitude to demonstrate that just because one is a preacher, it doesn't mean they have total power to say just anything over the pulpit. And honestly, do you want your kids talking like that? You know how kids can be, they'll be using the term on the basketball court after school if you tolerate that kind of language. Imagine my burden as a father. I'm watching my son play ball and suddenly he calls another player a "f@g". So I say, "Johnny, hey son, DON'T use that kind of language." What's his response going to be? He's going to say, "Why you so upset?! PASTOR calls people "f@gs" in church!" Where's that put me as a father trying to raise my son to be a Christian gentleman?
Here's the deal Bro. Rutledge... you've been essentially treated like you are "one of them unclassy Pentecostals" by men who have obviously not respected you or your family enough to use Christian language while in the pulpit. So naturally that's how you see yourself. But I don't think that at all... I think you're a conservative Apostolic Christian who knows what it means to speak like a Christian and what it means to be a Christian gentleman. And if you give this some thought, I'm convinced you'll suddenly realize that you do have class and that I have a good point.

Love ya bro.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Amen!

But you also don't have to allow your family's ears to be the dumping ground for uncouth preachers who don't have an ounce of respect for you or the people they're preaching to. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. If you'll use those curse words... you'll use others. Preaching is a sacred responsibility. The words used should be chosen wisely, delivered with severity, and seasoned with grace.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

You have got to be kidding me?

Preachers actually use those words in the pulpit?

Or out of the pulpit, for that matter.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Most don't. Too many do.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

But back to my original point. I have mixed feelings. I'm all for preaching the truth. But I think that anyone speaking publicly has an awesome responsibility for what they say. If it's hateful or inflammatory, I'm not so sure I'd be upset if they were called on it.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Amen. It seems to be preachers (some, not all) feel they have absolute power. Scary. We have a board of trustees, and I constantly charge them to hold my feet to the fire regarding what I teach and preach.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Good man. I salute you.

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I would also add, what if a visitor happens to be gay? My immediate supervisor is VERY gay (and been with the same 'partner' for the past 17 years). He is a good friend, albeit a "work" friend that I don't really associate outside of the building. Would I feel comfortable inviting him to church if my pastor talked like that?

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Bro, my family eventually left that church. It got so bad my wife and I thought twice before bringing any visitor... because we didn't want them turned from the truth before they could feel the Holy Ghost. It was really disheartening. Of course, the guy billed himself as a firebrand conservative. I saw him as an overbearing wacko lacking wisdom and grace.

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So we call them Sodomites because the bible does?

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BTW...the thread is about Islam

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

Personally, I don't use inflammatory terms when I preach. I just call sin sin and warn of the consequences. I guess it's just the southern charm and gentility I was raised to have. I remember my mother saying, "Son, don't you ever forget that Christian men are gentlemen." She also taught me that people will judge me according to how I speak more than how I look. But, I guess if a pastor had to use a pejorative term while ranting against them, the term "Sodomites" would at least be biblical.

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Oh... where can I find a recipe for a good veggie dip? They're having this "Super Bowl" party at work and everyone is supposed to bring something. If I make it halal I can say that I have not tried to hijack the thread.

Re: Insult Islam, get sent to prison?
 

You're right. I'm just using that as an example. If a preacher, speaker, or author were to intentionally use inflammatory rhetoric against the Islamic community that insights outrage, I think he bares some responsibility for those words.

I believe you should be free to say what you like... but one has to be responsible for the words one uses. Especially right now with the religious tension in the Muslim community. This is especially true for preachers and Christians, we're not talk-radio shock jocks, we're supposed to be preachers of truth and grace.

Just my take on things bro.

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I have often used the word "homosexual", but taught our people that if open homosexuals come in, we still love the sinner while not condoning the sin. There is a difference.

Scripture teaches us how God feels about sin, that it separates us from relationship with Him, but yet we see Jesus loving the adulteress, while not condoning sin.

This is still the responsibility of those whe represent Jesus today.

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And I would probably feel comfortable bring my friend to your church. Most, I am not.

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Well you said we don't get our ques from gays....so we don't call them gay because that would be taking a que from gays. We don't get it from the bible because the bible is inflammatory.

Call them "homo-sexuals"? were do we get that que from?

If they are fine with queers then queers is not inflammatory...what do we call them?!?!

BTW when I speak of burning fags I really am talking about a bundle of sticks on fire. :bigbaby