Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I mean as a whole, as a people regardless of what they are wearing, are Jesus name people different?

I think so, and will tell you why.


I think there is a difference in being baptize in Jesus name and filled with his spirit that being baptized in the titles.

I think there is an over coming power in the name of Jesus that you do not find in the titles.

The bible says 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If you are in Christ you are a new creature, I think if you are NOT a new creature you are NOT in Christ.


Why am I saying this or bringing this up???(if anyone happens to read this far)

Because I have been doing an ongoing bible study at the Recovery House on our church property-

I am using the Celebrate Recovery Bible and I am really struggling with some the stuff that it believes as far as salvation.

It believes in repeating the sinners prayer (where did anyone ever do this in the book of acts?)

It also believes in eternal security--I am not teaching this!


I see the result of faulty wishy washy Jail teaching ok, and it does not produce over coming Christians.

At some point, if we are not living over coming lives we have to be able to look at our convertion or what we believe and see why we fail.

I do not think repeating the sinners prayer gives people the power to live over coming lives, I just don't.

But I do see people that have been baptized in Jesus name living over coming lives time and time again.

So what do you think, do you think there is a difference or not?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Does anyone do any kind of a Jail ministry or work with recovering addicts?

What are some of your experiences?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I know RevDWW has experience in the prisons ..

Here are some testimonies of some prisoners who have said the sinner's prayer and not baptized in Jesus name living overcoming lives ...

http://www.alphapm.org/testimonies.htm

A repentant life submitted and trusting Christ is a new life, Liz.

I won't find a sinner's prayer, a baptism with the name of Jesus verbally invoked over baptizee, or someone being "prayed through" ...

But like Acts .... a life in Christ ... is made new.

This not the result of properly administred baptisms .... sorry.

Don't confuse your circle of fellowship w/ the Body.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

No, but I've heard reports of such things in my Trinny Pente (AG) days. Do you think their stories are less spectacular than Oneness stories? Or theirs are bogus and yours are not? Or, well, what exactly are you saying? ;)

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Great thanks for the link I will be sure to read it-

Daniel have you personally worked with segment of society?

Ok, please explain what you mean by the embolden statement??

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Perhaps not as dramatic. Not as Dramatic in spectacular-but dramatic as in seeing change in their lives.

I have had these women come in with very little power over drugs or really understanding spiritual things. Become different people before our eyes. Especially those who have been baptized.

I have seen a drastic difference.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

My thing is whan you repent is that not a sinners prayer... Mine was I prayed to god to forgive me so I had a sinners prayer...

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I won't dispute the point that most likely the baptizer didn't speak the name of Jesus over someone, but most likely the baptizee called on the name himself. Acts 22:16, and which is fullfillment of Romans 10:9, but there is something significant identifying with and be baptized into the body or death of Jesus. Romans 6 details this much better than any arguement. As you have stated in many threads, 2 commands 1 gift to be received. To know a command and not obey that same command to be baptized is sin and a demonstration of unbelief which will keep one out of the kingdom.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

To tell you the truth my biggest influence is myself and God's word.

I do not have the authority to change the forumla God gave the Apostles.

They taught repentence,

They taught baptism

They taught on the baptism of Holy Spirit.

Really has nothing to do with my circle of influence--

The results rather speak for them selves though.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Well this is a sincere prayer of repentence and think there is a difference -than perhaps mindlessly repeating what someone tells you to say.

But some believe this ALL you have to do, they tell them it is so easy- to do, thats it you are saved.

I do not see this in scripture sorry-

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I know that there is a branch of the Walk to Emmaus (the Upper Room version of it Emmaus, not the one I've heard about on here) that goes into prisons and does Emmaus Walk weekends with the prisoners. We have them here twice a year. The prison officials welcome us with open arms because they have seen the evidence of the lives changed. I've heard testimony after testimony from men who have been on these Walks while in prison, who have no hope of ever leaving the prison, but who years later are still walking strong for God. I think that if God can keep them strong in that kind of a situation, they've obviously latched onto something pretty powerful. No, they are not baptized in Jesus' name. No, they've never heard Oneness teaching (or probably trinity teaching either for that matter). But their lives have been changed and have remained changed. That says a ton to me.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

David Pawson, always asks when someone is struggling in their faith, what was your intiation like? In many cases they didn't have the proper birth experience!

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Yes it does and thank you for sharing!

We have a large segment that comes to our church, and some do still struggle some.

I do not put down what they have nor do I tell them they are not saved. But we teach what we teach.

I still see a big difference in the men who have obied than those that have not. I am just being honest.

Although, I do think God honors faith and has the power to change a persons life perhaps without baptism. A person just need to have all that God has for them.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Romans 10:13 need I say more

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Powerful when spoken in the context of baptism.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

He is also speaking to those that obied Romans 6:4

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Absolutely ... as this prisoners have.... but again ... it is a baptism that identifies with the person of Jesus Christ .... calling upon the name of the Lord ... an idiom for placing faith in Him ...

Lives submitted to Christ ... will be baptized ... and follow ALL OF HIS COMMANDMENTS, LIZ but to make this transformation as being caused by a properly administered baptism ... as you are obviously suggesting .... is a slap in the face of scores of prisoners who have had their lives TOTALLY TRANSFORMED by the power of God's Spirit and have not had the same baptismal experience as you, Liz.

Your suggestion to Margie that somehow they've had a nice experience but don't have all God has for them ... is based only on your perception ... and not the obvious, VISIBLE testimony of their own lives.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Which baptism water or holyghost in romans 6:4?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Grace Church of Humble gives thousands to Mike Barber Ministries that has impacted the lives of scores of prisoners with the Gospel of Jesus Christ ....

Mike is a former football player ...

http://www.mikebarber.org/main/about

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Quote:

I mean as a whole, as a people regardless of what they are wearing, are Jesus name people different

Jesus name people are who Liz? An AG person w/ the Holy Ghost has a different "person" dwelling in them ... not Jesus? Not Christ's Spirit?

Paul 2 chapters later, in Chapter 8 of Romans, has a wealth to say about the Spirit-filled believer being a new creature.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I want to get into this thread so bad but I just don't have the time. Maybe I can post tonight.

:sad:sad:sad

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Come on in delta

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

For someone to have a proper and normative birth experience a number of things need to happen, repentance, faith, baptism and the Spirit.

Each of those things are significant and bring about transformation in some degree, so we do never want to undermine or play down the significance of what happens in each part or experience. Our role as spiritual midwifes is to help people have the greatest and healthiest birth experience that they can have.

Repentance and Faith towards God isn't regeneration, Justification by God doesn't happen at the reception of the spirit, Union with Christ only happens at baptism, etc. That is why it is so vital that we get every part.

The reason why people have such significant change at each of those parts in that in and of themselves alone they are powerful encounters that will change any life.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Water! Every scholar even those that are a bit touched believe that it is water.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Having had extensive jail ministry experience, let me say this! Less than 4-5% are really serious.

For some it is something to pass the time!

For others, they want to look good for their Probation Officer or parole board.

The test for many is what are they willing to give to live for God. That has always been a catylist of whether they were going to stay in a religious program.

Most are in there because their selfishness pushed them to crime! If theyhave some true repentance they will begin to shed that selfishness and that only happens through sacrifice. In the prison system that is few and far between. They like salvation, as long as it does not cost them a thing!

A good lesson for a session, possibly somewhere down the road is John 6.

Just my input!

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

So no holyghost and speaking in tongues as evidence...

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Could you elaborate further?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

where I go to church you have to have the holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved LOL I really myself do not believe this. Plus bro Sam on here says there is a holyghost baptism so thats why I ask the question above which baptism in romans 6:4....

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Obviously, Keith you have retained the Water and Spirit message ... even now ... which I believes still hinders your view of the entire Body of Christ ...

After reading your statement I can only infer that somehow only those who have gone through the birth process properly are the MOST HEALTHY... the others are spiritually defective?

Are you suggesting a person filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit ... but has not been "unified w/ Christ" through a properly administered baptism, is not dressed with all of Christ????

I am all for making a parallel with natural birth when we speak of our spiritual birth ... Christ did ....but since when is the baby the catalyst ...? Where does God call us mid-wives?

Max Lucado makes a great point when he says:

Born again. Birth, by definition, is a passive act. The enwombed child contributes nothing to the delivery. Postpartum celebrations applaud the work of the mother. No one lionizes the infant. (“Great work there, little one.”) No, give the tyke a pacifier not a medal. Mom deserves the gold. She exerts the effort. She pushes, agonizes, and delivers.

When my niece bore her first child, she invited her brother and mother to stand in the delivery room. After witnessing three hours of pushing, when the baby finally crowned, my nephew turned to his mom and said, “I’m sorry for every time I talked back to you.”

The mother pays the price of birth. She doesn’t enlist the child’s assistance or solicit his or her advice. Why would she? The baby can’t even take a breath without umbilical help, much less navigate a path into new life. Nor, Jesus is saying, can we. Spiritual rebirthing requires a capable parent, not an able infant.



Who is this parent? Check the strategically selected word again. The Greek language offers two choices for again:

• 1. Palin, which means a repetition of an act; to redo what was done earlier

• 2. Anothen, which also depicts a repeated action, but requires the original source to repeat it. It means “from above, from a higher place, things which come from heaven or God.” In other words, the one who did the work the first time does it again. This is the word Jesus chose.

The difference between the two terms is the difference between a painting by da Vinci and one by me. Suppose you and I are standing in the Louvre, admiring the famous Mona Lisa. Inspired by the work, I produce an easel and canvas and announce, “I’m going to paint this beautiful portrait again.”

And I do! Right there in the Salle des Etats, I brandish my palette and flurry my brush and re-create the Mona Lisa. Alas, Lucado is no Leonardo. Ms. Lisa has a Picassoesque imbalance to her—crooked nose and one eye higher than the other. Technically, however, I keep my pledge and paint the Mona Lisa again.


Jesus means something else. He employs the second Greek term, calling for the action of the original source. He uses the word anothen, which, if honored in the Paris gallery, would require da Vinci’s presence. Anothen excludes:

• Latter-day replicas.

• Second-generation attempts.

• Well-meaning imitations.

He who did it first must do it again. The original creator recreates his creation. This is the act that Jesus describes.

• Born: God exerts the effort.

• Again: God restores the beauty.

We don’t try again. We need, not the muscle of self, but a miracle of God.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

I don't make that distinction, I do believe the HG to be essential part of the New Birth, I also believe the HG is evidenced in scripture (Acts) by tongues, estatic praise and prophecy.

I do feel that to know the command to be baptized and to refuse is unbelief and thus according Mark 16 a judgment issue.

Keep in mind salvation is a broad term, entrance into kingdom life, entrance into heaven, salvation or deliverance from the body of sins, and bring in new life by conquering the sin nature etc.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

As you quoted Pastor Keith: do feel that to know the command to be baptized and to refuse is unbelief and thus according Mark 16 a judgment issue.

I did not say I refused the baptism I was baptised in jesus name

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Surely you don't believe that I adhere to full salvation or the New Birth to be a product or fruit of our efforts.

There is conception, there is delievery there is evidence of birth. I know I was there for all 3 events in my son's life. Any analogy breaks down at some point, but it is clear that we must recapture Biblical language and refute unbiblical language etc. Sinners prayer, decision for Christ are unbiblical words and have no place in this intiation. Repentance (to think again), faith (trust that leads to obedience) baptism (immersion in water) and the reception of the life of the Spirit is the biblical language, for that I commit myself to and that I try and teach.

I don't undermine what God has done in other denoms, I don't believe it to be a all or nothing sum game.

I validate and appreciate those powerful encounters that those with a lesser experience have had, all I know is that whenever the Apostle encountered someone or someone who had some faith experience there was a inquiry to see what their experience was, and if there was something lacking then that was addressed.

I also don't address who is or isn't in the body of Christ. I just know there to be a normative intiation, that is what I contend for. I don't want to be an apologist for those who seek something else.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Most of Christianity agrees with you, Keith ... it's the assertion being made that somehow there is a spiritual defectiveness if it doesn't look the way we interpret Scripture .....in the life of a BLOOD-BOUGHT, SPRIRIT FILLED, SON OF GOD.

Born of God ... means just that ... born of Him. It's not inferior from one believer to another.

This is how you and Liz are articulating it ... initially.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Yes I do think a properly adminstered baptism could absolutely make a difference.

If did not matter how a baptism was adminstered then why would have Paul
rebaptized the believers in Acts. 19

Daniel you are injecting things into this conversation that are not entirely true. I am sure what Margie is saying is true, but we have men out of prison are some are still struggling. -Lets be true to the word of God, not necessarily my experience in baptism as you put.

But you can not take my experience away from me Daniel. I have been clean and sober for 25 yrs! I been to other churches had other baptisms-but nothing like Acts 2:38. Sorry I am going to tell my testimony over and over again! Guess what, we will baptize someone again on Sunday-in a way that you do not seem to agree with anymore, Daniel.


Ok, what is confusing me as an admin and a poster is why are we having to defend Jesus Name baptism on this forum? This should be a given.

As far as 'slapping' other prisoners in face as you put it--you are looking at the wrong way entirely. Baptism in Jesus name does not take away from what a person already has but adds to it.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Yes I think there perhaps there is a spiritual defectiveness, in some yes!

How else do you interrupt Acts 2:38??? How else do you do it???

Again we should not have to defend Baptism in Jesus name-why are we having to do this?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

There is a question of Doctrine... but it's probably not important... :)

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

If we don't have the biblical language or experience then mine is as good as yours and so on.

How does one become a blood bought, spirit filled son of God, and what are the characteristics that would determine if one is or isn't. Biblical language please?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Randy do you think we realy think that?

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

Well said, sweetness.

Re: Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People
 

That was for my dear friend Dan...:)