Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   cut the corners of their hair (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=24190)

*AQuietPlace* 05-11-2009 01:54 PM

cut the corners of their hair
 
What does this mean? Some kind of pagan practice?


# Jeremiah 9:26
Egypt, Judah, Edom, the sons of Ammon, Moab, and all who dwell in the desert who cut the corners of their hair, for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in heart."

# Jeremiah 25:23
Dedan, Tema, Buz, and all who cut the corners of their hair;

# Jeremiah 49:32
Their camels shall become plunder,their herds of livestock a spoil. I will scatter to every wind those who cut the corners of their hair,and I will bring their calamity from every side of them,declares the LORD.

Ferd 05-11-2009 02:09 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
I believe the word hair refers to beard.

ref:

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Leviticus 21:5
They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

Ferd 05-11-2009 02:12 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
It would be an idication of some who are outside the covanant or live outside of the Law of Moses.

Ferd 05-11-2009 02:12 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
in todays terms we would say they "went charismatic"



hee hee.

Sister Alvear 05-11-2009 02:25 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 748041)
in todays terms we would say they "went charismatic"



hee hee.

well have we?:ursofunny

Hoovie 05-11-2009 02:25 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 748041)
in todays terms we would say they "went charismatic"



hee hee.

LOL! Now that was cruel and unusual!!

Sister Alvear 05-11-2009 02:27 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 748050)
LOL! Now that was cruel and unusual!!

:hanky

*AQuietPlace* 05-11-2009 02:36 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 748038)
I believe the word hair refers to beard.

ref:

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Leviticus 21:5
They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

But this says 'round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard', so it must have been two separate things.

And I'm trying to figure out why God felt so strongly about it. It's mentioned in several different places. God really didn't like it, but I can't find where it says why.

Ferd 05-11-2009 02:45 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 748059)
But this says 'round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard', so it must have been two separate things.

And I'm trying to figure out why God felt so strongly about it. It's mentioned in several different places. God really didn't like it, but I can't find where it says why.

run down the trail of "Seperation". God was pretty keen on Israel being both physically and spiritually seperate from the rest of the world.

*AQuietPlace* 05-11-2009 03:00 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
I think I read a while back that someone said there was a pagan practice associated with this particular type of cut, but I can't find the reference.

I've been googling, too, but haven't found it yet.

*AQuietPlace* 05-11-2009 03:06 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Okay, here's one source I found:


Here are two commandments about how to cut your hair:

Leviticus 19:27. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Deuteronomy 14:1. Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

The pagan priests would trim the corners of their heads and their beards, much like monks have done. You'll note, however, that almost everyone has a ridge on their head where the frontal and parietal bones join. This is the ridge whose highest point is at or near the "crown". And what do pagan priests do? They shave the hair off the crown, creating what has been termed a tonsure (Figure 1). Some who prefer to keep their heads mostly bald (or have trouble growing hair) may opt for wearing a thin ring of hair around their heads, called a "monastic crown" (Figures 2 and 3).



Figure 1.
Figure 2.
Figure 3.


The tonsure was a pagan practice because by it, they showed obedience to the sun god! Note what Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons" Chapter 6, Section 2, writes (my emphasis is in bold):

Now, as Rome set so much importance on this tonsure, let it be asked what was the meaning of it? It was the visible inauguration of those who submitted to it as the priests of Bacchus. This tonsure cannot have the slightest pretence to Christian authority. It was indeed the "tonsure of Peter," but not of the Peter of Galilee, but of the Chaldean "Peter" of the Mysteries. He was a tonsured priest, for so was the god whose Mysteries he revealed. Centuries before the Christian era, thus spoke Herodotus of the Babylonian tonsure: "The Arabians acknowledge no other gods than Bacchus and Urania [i.e., the Queen of Heaven], and they say that their hair was cut in the same manner as Bacchus' is cut; now, they cut it in a circular form, shaving it around the temples."

Maimonides adds (Book 3, Chapter 37): "We have explained in our large work that it is prohibited to round the corners of the head, and to mar the corners of the beard, because it was the custom of idolatrous priests."

So the practice of trimming the corners of the head and beard are actually pagan practices and should not be practiced as such.

Ferd 05-11-2009 03:17 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 748075)
Okay, here's one source I found:


Here are two commandments about how to cut your hair:

Leviticus 19:27. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Deuteronomy 14:1. Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

The pagan priests would trim the corners of their heads and their beards, much like monks have done. You'll note, however, that almost everyone has a ridge on their head where the frontal and parietal bones join. This is the ridge whose highest point is at or near the "crown". And what do pagan priests do? They shave the hair off the crown, creating what has been termed a tonsure (Figure 1). Some who prefer to keep their heads mostly bald (or have trouble growing hair) may opt for wearing a thin ring of hair around their heads, called a "monastic crown" (Figures 2 and 3).



Figure 1.
Figure 2.
Figure 3.


The tonsure was a pagan practice because by it, they showed obedience to the sun god! Note what Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons" Chapter 6, Section 2, writes (my emphasis is in bold):

Now, as Rome set so much importance on this tonsure, let it be asked what was the meaning of it? It was the visible inauguration of those who submitted to it as the priests of Bacchus. This tonsure cannot have the slightest pretence to Christian authority. It was indeed the "tonsure of Peter," but not of the Peter of Galilee, but of the Chaldean "Peter" of the Mysteries. He was a tonsured priest, for so was the god whose Mysteries he revealed. Centuries before the Christian era, thus spoke Herodotus of the Babylonian tonsure: "The Arabians acknowledge no other gods than Bacchus and Urania [i.e., the Queen of Heaven], and they say that their hair was cut in the same manner as Bacchus' is cut; now, they cut it in a circular form, shaving it around the temples."

Maimonides adds (Book 3, Chapter 37): "We have explained in our large work that it is prohibited to round the corners of the head, and to mar the corners of the beard, because it was the custom of idolatrous priests."

So the practice of trimming the corners of the head and beard are actually pagan practices and should not be practiced as such.


See, I told you, they went charismatic!

*AQuietPlace* 05-11-2009 03:43 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 748079)
See, I told you, they went charismatic!

;)

Praxeas 05-11-2009 07:53 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Jer 9:26 That is, I will punish the Egyptians, the Judeans, the Edomites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, and all the desert people who cut their hair short at the temples. I will do so because none of the people of those nations are really circumcised in the Lord's sight. Moreover, none of the people of Israel are circumcised when it comes to their hearts, either."

NET Heb "all those who are cut off on the side of the head who live in the desert." KJV and some other older translations have followed the interpretation that this is a biform of an expression meaning "end or remote parts of the [far] corners [of the earth]." This interpretation is generally abandoned by the modern commentaries and lexicons (see, e.g. BDB 802 s.פֵּאָה 1 and HAL 858 s.פֵּאָה 1.β)

Gill The Arabians used to shave the extreme hairs of the head round about, as the forehead, temples, and behind the ears, which are the corners of the head; so Herodotus (i) reports of them, who seem to be meant here; though some think the Jews are intended, to whom this was forbidden, Lev_19:27,

Barnes All that are in the utmost corners - Really, all who have the corners of their hair shorn. The people meant are those Arabs who cut the hair close upon the forehead and temples, but let it grow long behind. See Lev_19:27.

LUKE2447 05-11-2009 10:25 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 748034)
What does this mean? Some kind of pagan practice?


# Jeremiah 9:26
Egypt, Judah, Edom, the sons of Ammon, Moab, and all who dwell in the desert who cut the corners of their hair, for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in heart."

# Jeremiah 25:23
Dedan, Tema, Buz, and all who cut the corners of their hair;

# Jeremiah 49:32
Their camels shall become plunder,their herds of livestock a spoil. I will scatter to every wind those who cut the corners of their hair,and I will bring their calamity from every side of them,declares the LORD.

I believe this is the part in which God forbid what you would consider a Fu Manchu per Jewish law. cutting the corner had to do with style.

Sam 05-11-2009 10:33 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
From Wikipedia

Following a Biblical commandment not to shave the sides of one's face, male members of most Hasidic groups wear long, uncut sideburns called payot (Ashkenazi Hebrew peyos, Yiddish peyes). Many Hasidim shave off the rest of their hair. Not every Hasidic group requires long peyos, and not all Jewish men with peyos are Hasidic, but all groups discourage the shaving of one's beard. Hasidic boys receive their first haircuts ceremonially at the age of three years (though Skverrer Hasidim do this at their second birthday). Until then, Hasidic boys have long hair. Many non-Hasidic (and even some non-Orthodox) Jews have adopted this custom.

jaxfam6 05-12-2009 08:24 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
I am thankful that I am not under the law of moses and that it was deemed unnecessary by the Apostles to put more on us then to not eat foods that were sacrificed to false god's, not to eat blood, and not to eat meats from animals that were strangled.


=)

LUKE2447 05-12-2009 09:08 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 748279)
I am thankful that I am not under the law of moses and that it was deemed unnecessary by the Apostles to put more on us then to not eat foods that were sacrificed to false god's, not to eat blood, and not to eat meats from animals that were strangled.


=)

Talk about destroying scripture and denying the whole for a jot. sheesh

Timmy 05-12-2009 09:17 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 748279)
I am thankful that I am not under the law of moses and that it was deemed unnecessary by the Apostles to put more on us then to not eat foods that were sacrificed to false god's, not to eat blood, and not to eat meats from animals that were strangled.


=)

Oh, haven't you heard? The meat-offered-to-idols law was later rescinded! 1 Cor 8! Yay!

Ferd 05-12-2009 09:55 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 748293)
Talk about destroying scripture and denying the whole for a jot. sheesh

LOL! You are dead on Luke!

*AQuietPlace* 05-12-2009 11:31 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
So y'all think this law is still valid?? Must not cut the corners of your hair, or trim the sides of your beard??

jaxfam6 05-12-2009 10:35 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 748345)
So y'all think this law is still valid?? Must not cut the corners of your hair, or trim the sides of your beard??

sounds like they must

jaxfam6 05-12-2009 10:36 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
seems they better stop eating lots of foods, go back to wearing dresses, not mix the materials of their clothes, and the list goes on and on.

LUKE2447 05-13-2009 08:20 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 748345)
So y'all think this law is still valid?? Must not cut the corners of your hair, or trim the sides of your beard??

does God want us wearing a Fu Manchu beard(not you of course). I don't think so. This is a example of how God does care about appearance and how it looks to others. Does not save you but it's his desire. Just my opinion.

LUKE2447 05-13-2009 08:22 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxfam6 (Post 748510)
seems they better stop eating lots of foods, go back to wearing dresses, not mix the materials of their clothes, and the list goes on and on.

yeah, might as well not worry about stealing, cheating, lying, murder and not loving you neighebor.... shall I go on! People's understanding of God's law never ceases to amaze me.

LUKE2447 05-13-2009 08:23 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 748296)
Oh, haven't you heard? The meat-offered-to-idols law was later rescinded! 1 Cor 8! Yay!

uh no!

Timmy 05-13-2009 09:56 AM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 748594)
does God want us wearing a Fu Manchu beard(not you of course). I don't think so. This is a example of how God does care about appearance and how it looks to others. Does not save you but it's his desire. Just my opinion.

No no, God loves Fu Manchus! But He doesn't like goatees. He does like handlebars. Doesn't like.....

Maybe you get my point. Actually probably not, so I'll spell it out: what makes anyone think God even has a "taste" in hair styles or beards or clothing or etc.??? OK, sure, someone wrote their opinions on God's tastes many years ago, and a lot of people today believe those opinions are actually God's own opinions. But come on. Seriously. Why would He care one way or another?

LUKE2447 05-13-2009 12:27 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 748631)
No no, God loves Fu Manchus! But He doesn't like goatees. He does like handlebars. Doesn't like.....

Maybe you get my point. Actually probably not, so I'll spell it out: what makes anyone think God even has a "taste" in hair styles or beards or clothing or etc.??? OK, sure, someone wrote their opinions on God's tastes many years ago, and a lot of people today believe those opinions are actually God's own opinions. But come on. Seriously. Why would He care one way or another?

Not sure why he would. Styles do mean things. Just like certain styles give a certain impression. Maybe God did not like the impression that it gave. I don't know as it is speculation on my part of his intentions. All I know is that he spoke about this style in the law of cutting the corners etc...

Timmy 05-13-2009 12:33 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 748772)
Not sure why he would. Styles do mean things. Just like certain styles give a certain impression. Maybe God did not like the impression that it gave. I don't know as it is speculation on my part of his intentions. All I know is that he spoke about this style in the law of cutting the corners etc...

All I know is that someone wrote that God spoke this. You believe it, I have my doubts. These days, a lot of people make things up and say God said them. I think people have been doing this for many centuries.

jaxfam6 05-13-2009 06:14 PM

Re: cut the corners of their hair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 748596)
yeah, might as well not worry about stealing, cheating, lying, murder and not loving you neighebor.... shall I go on! People's understanding of God's law never ceases to amaze me.

I find many know more about God's law than you would think. Never judge ones understanding of something by what you see in a forum.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.