"death panels" obamacare
 

'Death Panels' in Oregon?

Ethel C. Fenig
Perhaps former Governor Sarah Palin (R-Alaska) was referring to the tragic predicament of Barbara Wagner of Oregon when she wrote how she feared for the fate of her Down Syndrome son under "Obama's 'Death Panels.' "

Susan Donaldson James of ABC News reports on the letter Ms. Wagner received from the Oregon Health Plan in response to a $4000 a month drug her doctor prescribed after her lung cancer, long in remission, returned..


the insurance company refused to pay.

What the Oregon Health Plan did agree to cover, however, were drugs for a physician-assisted death. Those drugs would cost about $50.


Hmmmm, let's do the math. Yep, a one time prescription of $50 sure is cheaper than $4000 a month for who knows how many months to keep a 64 year old woman alive. So the Oregon "Death Panel" graciously offered suicide pills. Or doctor assisted murder.


But Ms. Wagner had an understandably different reaction.



"It was horrible," Wagner told ABCNews.com. "I got a letter in the mail that basically said if you want to take the pills, we will help you get that from the doctor and we will stand there and watch you die. But we won't give you the medication to live."

We have the groundwork for this. Obama lies again and again. He has a track record of corruption. With his deplorable reputation, we can't trust him.

The liberals hate Gov Palin who was open and honest about this. So is on the mark. Yesterday I heard the Dems clamor about the Insurance company between the patient and the doc. Now it is the government that wants in the docs office and put the IRS in there also.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

And what excuse are they using to include the IRS?

The government has used the IRS as the KGB for America to increase fear. This should not be. The IRS powers need to be reviewed and taken away. They are only supposed to be a collector of money.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

These critics, however, didn't take the time to find out to what Palin was referring when she used the term "level of productivity in society" as being the basis for determining access to medical care. If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

The article in which Dr. Emanuel puts forth his approach is "Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions," published on January 31, 2009. A full copy is embedded below. Read it, particularly the section beginning at page 6 of the embed (page 428 in the original) at which Dr. Emanuel sets forth the principles of "The Complete Lives System."

While Emanuel does not use the term "death panel," Palin put that term in quotation marks to signify the concept of medical decisions based on the perceived societal worth of an individual, not literally a "death panel." And in so doing, Palin was true to Dr. Emanuel's concept of a system which


considers prognosis, since its aim is to achieve complete lives. A young person with a poor prognosis has had a few life-years but lacks the potential to live a complete life. Considering prognosis forestalls the concern the disproportionately large amounts of resources will be directed to young people with poor prognoses. When the worst-off can benefit only slightly while better-off people could benefit greatly, allocating to the better-off is often justifiable....
When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.

Put together the concepts of prognosis and age, and Dr. Emanuel's proposal reasonably could be construed as advocating the withholding of some level of medical treatment (probably not basic care, but likely expensive advanced care) to a baby born with Down Syndrome. You may not like this implication, but it is Dr. Emanuel's implication not Palin's.

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...ath-panel.html

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

IRS can determine if the doc makes too much profit. Remember they are going to cut costs. The 1018 page document ahs a lot IRS involvement. If an Outpatient surgery center and it's docs make too much, they will lower reimbursement.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

You're off your rocker if you buy into this "death panel" business.

Palin is just trying to stay in the news. Maybe if she were so concerned about "death panels" she would have stayed in government where her opinion actually counted for something. Now she is relegated to posting on Facebook.

The ironic aspect in all of this is that she told people to "quit making things up" in her resignation speech as governor. Perhaps she could follow her own advice.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

2001
February 22: Born Alive Infants Protection Act (Senate Bill 1095) was first introduced in the Illinois Senate.

March 28: Then State Senator Barack Obama voted "NO" on the bill in the Senate Judiciary Committee. (Re: dating, the bill was introduced one day, and the vote was held the next. The tally is dated the day the hearing on the bill began.)

March 30: Obama spoke against the bill on the Senate floor.

March 30: Obama voted "PRESENT" on the Senate floor.




2002
January 30: Born Alive Infants Protection Act (Senate Bill 1662) was reintroduced after failing to become law the prior year.

March 6: Then State Senator Barack Obama voted "NO" on the bill in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

April 4: Obama spoke against the bill on the Senate floor.

April 4: Obama voted "NO" on the Senate floor.

July 18: Congress passed the federal version of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act.

August 5: The federal version of the Born Alive Infants Protection was signed by the President into law.




2003
February 19: Born Alive Infants Protection Act (Senate Bill 1082) was reintroduced after failing to become law the prior year.

March 13: After first voting for an amendment to make the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act identical to the federal version, Obama voted against the bill. (Re: dating, the bill was introduced one day, and the vote was held the next. The tally is dated the day the hearing on the bill began.)


Of course Obama was caught lying during the campaign about how he voted against "born alive child protection"

He has a shrinking batch of koolaid drinking supportes that defend his lying.

Oh so if a child is born and found to have down syndrome, they can just fix it right there.
So he lied about suppporting infanticide. Of course we expect the same behavior from his corruption on elderly.
Obama is not in favor of the sanctity of human life.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I think you have the wrong person in the rocking chair.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I very well might be off my rocker, but not because of this misinformation.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

What misinformation?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

All of the misinformation that is floating out there about this plan.

There are no death panels, and those that continue to promote this term are spreading misinformation.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I have a strong feeling you have no clue what his plan really is do you?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I do know a little bit about it. I have read up on it a little, like every American should do.

I do know that there are no death panels in the bill.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Exactly!!!


Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm's brother, tapped for White House health care policy advisor

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Have you read the ammendments to the bill?

Yesterday some Democrat congressman was confronted by a dad with a grown handicapped son. he read the bill. You have not.
The bill has bad news for palsy patients. The congressman says ammendments will cover it. That is how deceptive selling practices work. It isn't in the contract but 'trust me" we got ya covered.

DEATH CZAR Not a panelhttp://rightsoup.com/rahms-brother-d...he-death-czar/

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

.”

Emanuel’s cold, academic language can’t disguise his philosophies’ resemblances to Adolf Hitler’s. Here’s how Emanuel sums up who is to be treated, and who is to die:

Of course, the elderly won’t be the only ones killed. Infants are at the top of his list as well.

Obama drones don't know what is going on. Willfull ignorance.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Please provide some sort of link that explains what you are talking about. Preferably, not to a blog but to an actual news source.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

None of the right-wingers can ever explain why people in countries with public healthcare systems (Canada, UK, Australia, and 16 others) LIVE LONGER than people in the US. In fact, average lifespan in the US is (8) months shorter than Costa Rica (where by the way you can't even drink the water). And the healthcare system is the "best in the world?" hahahahahaha.......

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

(8) Preventive services, including those services recommended with a grade of A or B by the Task Force on Clinical Preventive Services and those vaccines recommended for use by the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
section 123


(3) MEMBERSHIP- The Health Benefits Advisory Committee shall be composed of the following members, in addition to the Surgeon General:


(A) 9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the President.

Gotta open section 122, 123 and 124 and combine them.

When we do read and report, the Obama idiots start tossing out words like un patriotic and misinformation.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Here are a few questions to ask about specific HR 3200 areas….

Page 30: A Government committee will decide what treatments & benefits you get. This would be the “Death Panel” and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process.

Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services.

Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans such as SEIU, UAW and ACORN.

Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care Plan

Page 149: Any Employer with a payroll of $400k or more, who does not offer a public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

Page 241: Doctors: no matter what medical specialty, will all receive the same compensation!!!! You can thank the AMA.

Page 272: Cancer patient treatment will be on a case by case depending on cost of treatment.

Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals

Page 425: Advance Care Planning: Counseling for Senior Citizens, assisted suicide and euthanasia.

Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services will be made available: organizations such as ACORN.

Page 472: Payments will be provided to Community-based organizations (ACORN).

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Sounds like a standard public healthcare system. Like the ones in Europe and Australia and Canada. You know, places where people LIVE LONGER. If you don't live longer how can you say you have the best system in the world?

8% is less than employee/employer health insurance cost anyway. I will take it. LOL. Wait, I already keep 100% and have free healthcare too!

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Please provide a source for that. While you're at it, provide sources for all of the questions. But mainly the first one.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I have no problem explaining. I travel between them to see family,. People like your self don't want truth. America has open borders and all kinds of week, poor etc sneak in. Millions of them. That skews the life expectancy downward. We also use a lot of cocaine from Muslim afghanistan. Muslims there are addicted and ship us drugs. we have a life expectancy for smokers and people with aidws that live longer than most Muslim countries.

You have no room to talk. Muslims sure whine a lot.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

(laughing) Who is talking about Muslims anyway? Who is whining? The only Muslim country on the "list of countries where life expectancy exceeds the US" is the UAE. You think people don't drink, smoke, or use drugs in Europe, Canada, or Australia? LOL for that matter, the Netherlands, where drugs are legal, have higher life expectancy than the US. What say you to this Coadie?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Kathleen Sebelius will have the power to alter almost every aspect of this bill without any oversight.

But they’re not going to tell us how to raise our children, right? No, of course not. They’re just going to counsel us on the correct way to raise our children.

(1) IN GENERAL.—In this section, the term ‘eligible expenditures’—

(A) means expenditures to provide voluntary home visitation for as many families with young children (under the age of school entry) and families expecting children as practicable, through the implementation or expansion of high quality home visitation programs that—

(i) adhere to clear evidence-based models of home visitation that have demonstrated positive effects on important program-determined child and parenting outcomes, such as reducing abuse and neglect and improving child health and development;

(ii) employ well-trained and competent staff, maintain high quality supervision, provide for ongoing training and professional development, and show strong organizational capacity to implement such a program;

(iii) establish appropriate linkages and referrals to other community resources and supports;
(iv) monitor fidelity of program implementation to ensure that services are delivered according to the specified model; and

(v) provide parents with—

(I) knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains (including knowledge of second language acquisition, in the case of English language learners);

(II) knowledge of realistic expectations of age-appropriate child behaviors;

(III) knowledge of health and wellness issues for children and parents;

(IV) modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices;

(V) skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development;

(VI) skills to recognize and seek help for issues related to health, developmental delays, and social, emotional, and behavioral skills; and

(VII) activities designed to help parents become full partners in the education of their children;

My first thought after reading this – what if I say no – I don’t want your voluntary inspection of my family. What will be the ramifications to the families that choose not to volunteer? Will the State consider this an act of someone with something to hide? Will the next step be for Child Protection Services to be contacted just to make sure our children are o.k.?

Section 440

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Then I am off mine too. Brittan has a panel that decides who gets meds and who is too sick.

so do a lot of countries where this kind of healthcare has been in place for any length of time.

Palin was dead on accurate.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

But in the UK, panel or not, they live longer. Best healthcare in the world? What say the lot of you to being ranked 23rd in lifespan?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I think it has been clearly demonstrated and proven.

Go read the bills. Then read Dr Ezekiels long winded rant in the Lancet. I don't read the Lancet much because it is more political than the JAMA and other domestic magazines.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

You have a healthy mind

so does Hannan. He is warning us as friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI6uy...layer_embedded

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I wish someone could show proof of these death panels. Everyone says this but no one can show where it is the case in his health care bill.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Exactly and they load up their folks and trip to the Cleveland clinic. What does that tell ya? Bring all their wives and body guards and hit Cleveland.
There is no doubt in my mind that obesity which you leave out is not offset by fancier cath Labs. Childhood diabetes is booming here as is suicide. So what. Having "reformed" health insurance won't stop consumption of tons of junk foods. My daughter tried out for the Olympics in the heptathlon. Many of her classmates are chunky. We all go to the same hospitals. Our three children have had 10 friends die in the last few years. Not a single death could be prevented by an improved health insurance system.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

You really believe this? Whoever that panel is, their net decisions mean that the overall population lives longer. Meds? What we call "prescription meds" are readily available over the counter in Britain. As they are in Canada and Australia. They are even available here in Saudi Arabia. Malaysia. Indonesia. Anywhere but the US. Meds are easier to get in Saudi than in the US. We want antibiotics? We just go buy them. Same for any other med you can think of. Directly from the counter at the pharmacy.

Maybe easier access to meds is why Brits and Canadians and Australians and yes even the pot-smoking Dutch live longer. If people have shorter lives then the healthcare system is not working. So what say you, any of you, to this?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009080902445

A doctor takes issue with the Washington Post
By Michelle Malkin •

Michelle,

I am a pediatrician in Southern Indiana in Rep. Baron Hill’s district. I was actually contacted by the WaPo to give my thoughts on this situation. I was asked by a friend to do this and needless to say, I was quite nervous about what the liberal journalist from the WaPo would take away from our conversation. I spent an hour talking to him with my husband alongside of me and sounded calm and well-educated on the matter. I tried to discuss my concerns not because I am a conservative, but because I am a physician. I couldn’t believe that these are the quotes which ended up in the paper. The first wasn’t even close to what I said. I never referred to Rep. Hill by his first name and the “effigy” comment was not even close to what I was talking about. I mentioned how I “wouldn’t hang him in effigy” (since that is the left’s favorite thing to do, ie, Sarah Palin, Bush), meaning that I have concerns, but am willing to voice them in a productive way. He also asked me about how I’ve been trying to get people involved and I mentioned that I have posted things on FB to encourage my friends to contact his office. He came into my home with his agenda, a very liberal agenda, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I thought that he would present both sides equally and fairly, and instead twisted my words and did not even put the important things in that I had emphasized. I always believed that the left had their agenda and always knew that they would warp our views to better fit how they want the world to see us. Now, my beliefs have been validated. I’m sick over this. Here is the link to the article.

Keep fighting the good fight!

Christy Lane
Here a doctor has a low pressure interview. She is misquoted deliberately by the washington Post. Liberals will put words in your mouth. They will twist what you say into a lie. It is harder to do that if the comments are recorded on youtube


"He needs to answer the people. He voted yes. Why? Tell us why, Baron. I'm not going to hang you in effigy," said Salem pediatrician Christy Lane.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

The thread is about "death panel" It is not about where you get your drugs.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

And if you're thinking about dying in the hospital, read this from Canada:

Canadian Researcher Wants Dying Sent Home to Free Up Hospitals
May 21st, 2009 | Author: John
From UPI, May 20, 2009:

As a way to help free up hospital beds, a Canadian researcher suggests people should be encouraged to die at home rather than in a hospital.

University of Alberta researcher Donna Wilson says that there’s been a dramatic change in the location of death of Canadians. Up until 1994, about 80 percent died in a hospital, but that number has dropped to 61 percent.

Wilson says she would like to see the number drop further to 40 percent as baby boomers age because this could reduce wait lists and free up hospital beds for those who need life-saving treatment or surgery.

It’s also a much more dignified death for a family member, Wilson says.

Wilson calculated that in the next 20 years the number of people dying could double and if death rates in hospital stay at 80 percent it means a potential tie-up of every single bed in Canada for three days of the year — because each person takes up a bed for an average of 10 days.

Share
Posted in Canadian Health

And if there is no home----there is always the "CHUTE" !!

"death panel " update.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Ask the politician this question:
7. If you support a “comparative effectiveness” board, what qualifies you, as a politician, to practice medicine? Have you delivered health care to a single person, much less entire classes of people you claim to represent, such as the poor, the uninsured, or children?

I’m one of two physicians in the Senate, along with John Barrasso of Wyoming. I know for a fact that very few leaders in this debate have any firsthand experience or knowledge of health care, which is disturbing.

"Comparative effectiveness" Is another fluffy expression for "death panel". They deciide no more chemo or no surgery. Hey if you have Recurrent depression, you may not be an acceptible risk.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

I am so glad you brought up life expectancy! THANK YOU!

I dont have time right now but stick around because I will be knocking that little boondoggle out of the park in a couple of hours.

hint, life expectancy is NO indication of medical care.

geez.

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

You think? Australians? Brits? Dutch? 26 countries with longer lives because of Cleveland? hahahahahaha.....the numbers don't add at all.

I am really thinking now. Wouldn't people even in Ohio live longer if the healthcare was so good? Yet Ohio is ranked 36th in life expectancy. Out of the 50 states + DC. Age 76.2. Who do they compare to?

(really laughing) They are FAR BELOW any country with any kind of public healthcare system at all. I won't embarress you. BUT, the good news is they are almost as good as Chile at 76.96 or Equador at 76.62. Ditto Argentina at 76.32. You know, places where you can't drink the water. In fact, they are just above Saudi Arabia at 75.88. Below Kuwait though. I guess those Saudis waste all that travel to add (4) months to their life. LOL......

When people in Cleveland live longer please come back and sell "Cleveland healthcare". What the "best system in the world" data is looking like is a lot of noise with no performance. Otherwise, pass out some dope, convert it to a public system, and at least match the Netherlands at a whopping, backside kicking 79.11

Are drugs still the problem Coadie or is it the stinking mess of a system you are defending?

Re: "death panels" obamacare
 

(laughing) That's been tried with me (the park thing). You just bring it pardner. I would think a superior level of medical care would at least imply that you wouldnt die sooner! Maybe we have different priorities....