An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin

Both of these gentlemen have been warning of collapse for some time. I have fought them tooth and nail. Well it seems maybe I am the one that is wrong.

I don’t believe there is some cabal in place. I do however see that human nature being what it is; we have reached a breaking point. We face disaster equal to or greater than the great depression.

Debt spending in America has reached a feverish pitch with no end in sight. Our President is about to sign a treaty that will cede American sovereignty to a one world governmental body designed to take our wealth and give it to those who have proven to be thieves.

Our government purports to work against the financial institutions that brought about the collapse however; the government (both sides of the aisle) has been bought and paid for by these same banking interests.

Even if the American public wakes up and takes control of America in the next election cycle in 2010, it is likely to be too late. Our debt and our printing of money have reached such a level that there simply is no way back to the ledge we have leapt from.

This article (just one of many reasons for my change of heart) speaks to some things that are utterly disheartening.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ame...ble-2009-10-20


The link speaks to a number of issues that have been building in me as we talk about the relevant issues taking place right now. Edward is right; it is time to start putting back supplies for a time of peril.

For those of you who are buying gold, I wouldn’t put my faith in that either. In the short term it might be a bit of a bridge, however if things really go hard south, don’t be surprised at all to see the government take it from you. For those who cant believe I just said that, understand this, it wouldn’t be the first time that happened.

I pray that D4T, Ed and I are wrong. However for now, let me simply say

Ed/D, I humbly apologize for all our debates. I concede.

Its time to start canning……


Peace and may God have mercy on all of us.


Quote:

Quoting 18th century Scottish historian Alexander Fraser Tytler: "The average life span of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years" progressing from "bondage to spiritual faith ... to great courage ... to liberty ... to abundance ... to selfishness ... to complacency ... to apathy ... to dependence and ... back into bondage!"

Where is America in the cycle? "It is most unlikely that Western societies, and especially the U.S., will be an exception to this typical 'society cycle.' ... The U.S. is somewhere between the phase where it moves 'from complacency to apathy' and 'from apathy to dependence.'"

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I am a half full kind of person living with a half empty guy. He has been saying this since the market collapse last year. I do not want to go through anything this bad, but it may bring about a turn back to God- If it does it will be worth it.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I saw somewhere that people are actually saving more now than they ever have. I need to buy a house and this looks great to me. Some things were just out of balance and this is a much needed correction.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Blue, I don’t know how we avoid it.

The entire world is demanding via Global Warming treaty that we (the USA) pay huge reparations. That is money we don’t have.

We are currently spending (non-military) in excess of 25% of GDP
within 5 years something like 60% of all tax receipts will go to pay the interest on the debt we owe to places like China.

We are printing money that is not reflected in the actual economy to shore up banks that would have long failed without it. This is fake money that doesn’t represent anything but an over supply of dollar bills. That means the value of the dollar HAS to go down.

We are looking at 3 to 4 trillion dollar deficits over the next couple of years according to the President.

We are trying to pass a healthcare bill that will add 200 BILLION more in spending per year at the least.

We are looking at a cap and trade bill that will add something on the order of 1500 to 3000 dollars in new taxes to every single American's annual bill.

We are facing 50 TRILLION in unfunded mandates for Medicare and Social Security all with a shrinking work force and an economy that many are saying will likely see 10% unemployment for the next decade...AT BEST.

Some experts are saying that next year the housing area is likely to take a hit as large as or larger than the one last year.

China is the emerging economy and will be number one before too long. They also believe that their ascendancy requires our fall. They are teaming with Russia who is bitter about the loss of the cold war to end American dominance as the worlds Carry Currency.

We have already crossed the line that China can crush us simply by calling our debt. Period. The jig is up on that.

YET we continue to spend like drunken sailors and we are spending money we don’t have….

You have to understand also that a Fiat economy bases its value on the economy as a whole. Right now the American economy is less and less valuable every day. Yet at the same time we are printing more and more money.

Inflation has to spiral out of control. There really is no choice.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

This is one time when being right brings absolutely no gleeful satisfaction.

It's a mess. A big, bloody mess.

It was a mess before Obama took office, and it's an even bigger mess now.

The average American has no idea what's coming.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

This correction you speak of includes debt to china at a level that requires 60% of all tax recipts to pay the interest?

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

And, ftr, I enjoyed our debates, Ferd.

I have preached debt reduction long and hard to my family and my church.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I agree EA most people don't have a clue what is behind the scenes on this.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Bro, knowing what is coming doesnt do me any good. There simply isnt a good way to avoid the train wreck.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

after the inflation bomb hits, I dont know that this will help either.

when bred costs $50,000 who cares about a credit card with $5K on it?

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Amen Edward Anglin.

Ferd... no apologies necessary.

I only pray that we all have time to make as many changes & preparations as possible. My wife and I were talking yesterday and realized that, once again, we have gotten distracted from our goal of removing ourselves from as much financial need as possible.

But... once again... we are going to regroup and do more.

When the ladder is going to fall I may not be able to get myself off the ladder completely but I can get as far down as possible as to lessen the harm incurred when the fall finally happens.

People say over and over... God will take care of his children. Yes... this is absolutely true. But we won't be keeping the hummers & the big house in the gated community. We're gonna be losing stuff.

I am just doing all I can to act upon what I feel is the wisdom of God. That is the only wisdom we can rely on.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Debt reduction is always good, Ferd.

It's not a cure all, but it surely does help.

America is not what she was, and America will never again be what she was.

That's not pessimism, that's reality.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Y'all are scaring the TAR out of me!

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Oh I am with you and have been working on that too. We are finally weaned off the credit cards and working hard at eliminating all debt (house too).

cars are paid for and Lord willing I will never buy another on credit again.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

good. go forth and can!

and pray!

LOL!

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Sorry, but facts are facts.

When you look at the average debt of individual Americans, and then add up the astronomical debt load our federal and state governments are carrying, you should be scared.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I used to can. I loved it. It might be time to haul out the equipment again.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

That is great new Ferd.

As my wife and I were discussing last night. It is a win-win situation. If the system doesn't fail (a thought which I hold little hope for) then we have still accomplished what we want. We are still in the best place to be.

And... to elaborate on the "no need for an apology" thought a little further. Anything we say... any stance we take... is an honest expression of what we feel in our hearts. We can't expect any more than that from anyone.

There is never a need to apologize for having been honest with someone about the way we feel.

Godspeed my friend.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

How bad is bad? What are y'all talking about here, as far as our day to day lives? Are we going to be digging in the ground for worms to eat?

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

In the words of the great prophet Arsenio Hall... It's time. :)

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I can't speak for others but what I am talking about is a total (or possibly near total) collapse of the American dollar.

I'm thinking... liberally... 2 years out.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Okay, but I'll confess to being a total dummy in this area. So what does that MEAN?

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

That means the great depression will have to be downgraded to the mediocre depression.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

That's what I was afraid you meant.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I agree with you on positioning in regards to what might or might now happen.... and I appreciate the sentiment. As much has this is heart felt in the appology department, I am hoping this thread turns into a deeper discussion about the reality of the world we are living in.

these are truely dangerous days.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

that is in line with my thinking.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Ferd, how are you buddy? I haven't been on AFF since January ( i think).

Anyhow, I was just wondering, what does people like Aqullia and the other Obama lovers think now?? Are they still defending him ?? Do they still support and like what's taking place? even what you just mentioned in your starting post?? surely not!

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Matthew 6:30-34

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

(Yes, the KJV guys used smilies. :lol)

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

AQP, look at it this way.

We have a fiat economy. What that means is the actual value of the dollar bills you carry is based on the perceived value of the American economy as a whole.

Now when the American economy dominates the world, that dollar buys a whole lot of stuff. It does so because everyone wants it. where their economies are unstable ours is stable and thus the reason they want our dollars.

Now consider the value of anything is based on how many people want it, vs how many of the objects there are available.

If you are the only apple farmer in the world and you produce a very tasty fruit, the whole world wants your apples and you can simply "sell to the highest bidder". people with lots to offer you get apples while those with nothing eat pears.

Now if somehow, some folk learn how to grow apples and their apples taste as good as yours then there are now more people with apples to sell, there are more apples and now, there are more bidders that can win apples.

Your apples lost value because there are more apples out there....BUT

What if instead of more apples being out there, the pear farmers figure out that if they can get people to hate apples, then more people will want pears?

Let’s say for some reason that apples start making people really really sick. Now nobody wants your apples. You may have the only apples on the world but if nobody wants your apples they have no value.

The American economy is seeing both of these things happen. Other nations like China and Europe have stable and valuable currency. some people want theirs now to go with ours.... that makes ours less valuable because the market place now has options (more apples from other growers)

At the same time, our economy is NOT stable and our government policy is making it less stable. That means fewer people want our currency. The value of our dollars has dropped because fewer people want to take our dollars for their goods…..


That is called inflation. All the sudden now instead of a dollar to buy bread, it takes more dollars, not because bread is more valuable but because the dollar is less valuable.

Your question was how bad. Consider history. In Germany, before WW2 it got to the point that bread cost $50,000 marks… Then in desperation the people turned to a charismatic figure who told them he had a plan to get them out of the economic mess.

That man was Hitler. Desperate people will do anything to feed their kids. They will even elect a Hitler. And march off to war and commit unspeakable horror.

I don’t mean to be beyond the pale here, but the answer to “how bad can it get” can only be answered with “How bad has it gotten before”?

That answer is pretty scary.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Hey bro! Good to hear from you!

Honestly I dont want this thread to go down that road. there are plenty of those threads. I think in large measure the supporters are the supporters.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Actually debt reduction with a dollar going down is not good. If you start making 20,000 dollars a week in 2 years, debt service is easy. This is why china is afraid of dollars. The paying of debt in a few years gives them dollars worth less than pesos.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

I am all about paying down the debt. I agree with you guys that this should be a priority. Still, why weren't we doing anything about this when the republicans were in control. The problem has been there my whole life and we have never done anything about it.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

The issue is that the Republicans can say ... look what Obama is doing... and before... the Democrats could say... Look what Bush is doing.

The fact is this... no matter who is in office this spiral continues and it does so across party lines.

This issue is beyond partisan politics. This is about a bi-partisan spiral to destruction and both parties can claim more blame than there is room to spread it.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Well I'm sorry but I WANT it to go down that Road


Aquilla where are you :ursofunny

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

So why did they shut off water for California?

Communists seem to operate by promising a rescue from a problem they caused. The media has let enough people know Obama is the problem and has no clue for a solution.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

So what will make our economy collapse? You guys make it hard to take anything you say serious when y'all start predicting collapse and failure.

The way I see it we could just balance the budget once the economy starts to grow and then as inflation weakens our dollar we will pay back the debt at a discounted rate.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Ferd, we also mixed it up about the economy and in particular housing. Take a look at this article, but mainly the supporting links. Good stuff. The link on housing stat says much of the country is going to further decline. And yesterday the National Mortgage news predicted another 11% decline in median home price, a huge amount of wealth that is evaporating out of the economy and will probably never to be gained back.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/10/..._this_rec.html

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

That is called the Hegellian Dialectic and it is at work in most every form of government.

Re: An apology to Digging4Truth and Edward Anglin
 

Spending comes out of congress. The Republicans lost control several years ago. Liberal republicans appeased the dems and we all know that was a disaster. We all didn't push it when Barney said the fannie and Freddie were ok