Just Having Church!!!!!!!!!!
 

OH Yeah!

Fast Forward to 4:30
Rod Parsley gets a good dose! LOL

Que?

Did I miss something?
 

Did I miss something?

No comprendo?

OPPS!!!!! Sorry Guys...I guess a link would help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAeY8G6QlFk

mmkay

Great Church
 

WOW - I was in that service! It was incredible and that is just how Campmeeting is every year at WHC! The problem is - getting in the building. Many people wait all day in line to just get a seat for the night service!

I wonder what happened when the organ and horns stopped?

I hate to be so pessimistic, but I'm getting tired of music-driven "praise and worship".

TD Jakes is walking around sort of like Benny Hinn there. He's got a couple of "body guards" following him, slaps his hand on someone's forehead, they buckle, the crowd goes wild. I even noticed that when Parsley (I'm guessing the fellow in the white shirt/suspenders who got on stage) got "touched" that there were a couple of folks on the stage sort of cheering him on.

And before I get blasted, I don't care for this anywhere I go. I am not against music, but music that pumps the crowd up is getting old. He was speaking of praise being a sacrifice? I didn't see much sacrifice going on, and all too often this is about as much as anyone is really willing to sacrifice. And, I'm just as guilty as the next guy/gal.

Maybe I'll learn if there is truly a place for it in God's house. Til then, call me skeptical. I don't think it should take cheerleading -- from the pulpit or the orchestra -- to elicit praise of that nature.

When was this, AB? This looked like older "hairdos" and I thought I saw a clip of Gary Oliver. That would have had to have been several years ago, I think.

Eddie has been there, but I never have. I didn't realize it was so much like Mississippi UPC campmeeting!! LOL. Eddie just came in here while I was playing the clip, and he said it's like that all the time. Lots of ex-UPC and lots of Black Pentecostals. I would love to visit sometime, but I wouldn't want church like that ALL the time.

I think there's a time for it, just like there's a time to slow down and worship. I wouldn't want it hyped like this all the time, but I think it's ok to just rejoice in the Lord. It was exactly like FPC in Jackson, MS on Sunday nights when I was there.

Sherri, I'm beginning to wonder if there's ever a time to be driven by the beat. I truly would love to see the instruments in these situations just stop. Yep, I've been caught up in it, too. When the music stops I'm like.........."huh?"


Sure, in the Lord, but in the flesh?

If we weren't in the flesh, we could walk through the walls. We're always in the flesh when we worship the Lord. I don't think there's anything wrong with dancing, leaping, or whatever in time with the music. But we also have to know how to get alone with God in our quiet times and just fall before Him in worship. I think when it's hype all the time, it gets very out of balance.

When I was at JCM in the 70's, on Sunday nights, if you didn't dance and shout, they thought you were backslid. However, some of those that bucked and hollered went out after church and did unmentionable things. That's when I think it's out of balance!

At our church our Pastor is the piano player and leads the worship. I am always amazed at the powerful alter calls we have without one note of music. God moves in incredible ways without any music until it is time to dismiss.

I Hate Dead Churches!
 

Good Lord - are you people Pentecostal? I like the beat - Actually - I LOVE this kind of Church - the Hammond Organ roaring, Piano keys running, drums beating about 100 MPH, bass beating, guitars strumming, tambourines shaking, people shoutin', running, jumping, dancing, praising and that is how I have always liked it. I AM PENTECOSTAL and I am NOT ASHAMED TO PRAISE GOD!

I HATE DEAD CHURCHES! Anything that is dead needs to be buried! I get sick of this judgmental attitude of dead heads that don't even know what praise is! IF you don't like it - don't watch it! Keep your mouth off of it - Your gonna need it one day!

This USED to be how Pentecostal Churches used to be. It used to be that way at almost EVERY UPC Church on Sunday night. Now it is so orchestrated and planned - you know exactly how - when - and where something is going to happen in a service. Some of it is worse than the A/G or COG and that is pretty bad!

It is still that way at Rod Parsleys, Tommy Bates, Clint Browns, TD Jakes and many other places. You wonder why his place is filled up with Ex-UPC? They got tired of going to the Professional DEAD Pentecostal Churches in Columbus and I have preached in them and THEY ARE DEAD as 4:00! DEAD - DEAD - DEAD!
You know what is filling some of these churches up - people are sick of going and hearing ONE GOD - like other people REALLY believe in more than ONE - water baptism - hair - pants and I LOVE THE UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH so much! You should LOVE GOD! I got so sick of hearing that - over and over. I LOVE the UPC - like it was some great Saviour!
These guys Preach JESUS - the Savior - the Healer - The Deliverer - The Need Meeter - the Baptizer in the Holy Ghost.
Oh Lord - Now I have went and done it - stepped on the Sacred Cow!

If this woman can get on here and say what she said about Bishop Jakes - who pastors over 20,000 people - I can say she is dead and twice plucked up by the roots - DEAD and needs the HOLY GHOST!

Some of you DEAD HEADS need to blow your sign up - YOU should be arrested for FALSE ADVERTISING! Pentecostal - Give me a Break! You wouldn't know Pentecost if it slapped you across the face!

Your Pastor CAN make a piano talk!

:tiphat

Ah, yes, the pontification of reprobation. The men you say preach 'Jesus' preach the flesh. I don't wonder even a little bit why the churches pastored by those backslidden fellas are full: it's because they appeal to the flesh. And, so what if TD Jakes pastors 20,000 people? Too bad ole' Noah only had eight folks in his congregation. He musta had 'dead church'. Probably too much of that mean old repentance preaching turned folks off.

I am Pentecostal to my core, mister, the real, old fashioned, apostolic, tongue-talking, singing, shouting, holiness believing, sin hating, evangelistic kind of Pentecostal that has something far beyond a cranked up emotional high once week when the racket is just right! And, I don't think you would know real Pentecost anymore, not even if it bit you in the hinder parts.

Dead Heads
 

:happydance LOL - Always putting others down to build your little man made organizational elitist, sectarian dead denomination up! DEAD HEADS!
There are SOME still around that appreciate a move of God and good HOLY GHOST music!::rockband :rockband :rockband

indeed, it appears that you have rightly judged yourself

There is a time, and a place for everything. There are times I believe God wants us to slow down and allow the gentle move of the spirit to come into the place. I have been in services that had they started jamming on the Hammond, it would have interrupted what God was doing. And then there are times when you just know from the start of the service that there was gonna be a hoe down before it was over. Each have their place, and each are important.

I do believe there are times that the "shout" is pushed at the end of a service, and Gods direction is discarded for the beat.

Acts 2:37-47
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This sounds pentecostal to me!

Emotionalism is not what makes me Pentecostal - there's no scriptural basis for a lot of what goes on in our churches; it's cultural. We lose a lot of intelligent people by overemphasizing demonstrative worship. A real outpouring of the Holy Ghost doesn't require a Hammond organ.

I'm glad to see that at least a few got my concern. :rolleyes2

I've only been back around for 4 years after a 20 year backslide. I see the difference from when I was a teen and now. I fear that some who have not had the "privilege" of backsliding don't see how too much praise is "beat driven", not desire driven.

So true !

Music does influence our response to God. It helps us respond to God.

I think this might be seen in the fact that Saul called for music when he felt low or oppressed and the music lifted his spirit.

But I do agree, with some posters, that much of the "shockamoo girations" that are used to judge how spiritual one is, in some of our churches are largley driven by a 4 / 4 beat of a drum and a Hammond B3.

It's funny that in your previous post you did just this.


Man, sorry to hit a nerve, AB!! :toofunny

Your post is very rude, my friend. You insert a bunch of what I call "hooey". You've taken a simple concern and blown it way out of proportion. This has nothing to do with not being "Pentecostal", which I didn't know was defined by beat-driven praise. I won't even come close to calling it worship!

I certainly love a good shouting service. I just don't care for it being "orchestrated" by the instruments. I've seen what looks like way too many people worked into a frenzy by the music. If it weren't for the beat, they'd be flat on their feet. Sorry if I think there's something wrong there.

Ehhhh, I don't even know why I'm going on. You believe what you want and more power to ya'!


First off, I'm not a woman. Second, I don't care how many Jakes pastors. Numbers don't impress me. I've just seen his mannerisms change over a few years. He walks around the crowd very much like Benny Hinn does -- pushing people down as he lays hands on them. I saw this very thing at La. Camp meeting two years ago as a very prominent evangelist, who has since left the UPC and gone to Austin, did the very same thing. I prayed for understanding as I watched him lay hands on people, all the while pushing them with his hand. He also had the "catch crew" following him so they could gather up the "slain". It didn't sit well in my spirit. I asked God to forgive me for any wrong attitude and spirit. Seeing the path he is taking, I think my "feeling" was right, but I still pray he is right and not veering off into sensationalism.

Watch men of God with an anointing and sensitivity to the Holy Ghost who lay hands on people. They don't "force" themselves on the person. Their hand does not "follow" the person to the ground or recoil when removed. But, I digress..............

Next time any of you find yourself in an all out shout down...just have all the musicians and singers stop. Even have them slowly taper off and come to a stop.

Then you'll find that 98% were a dancin' to the music and the hype.

Now that's fine if that's what ya all feeel ya need to do to keep foks saved, but hey, let's call it what it is.

It's not worship in most cases and at best, it's very shallow praise.

I'm not opposed to the beat and the dance. I just think that too often it's mindless and insensitive to the leading of the spirit. My favorite pastor once called a halt to "Already Been to the Water" after a baptism; he told the organist there's a time for that, but we need to think about what just happened here, and not just celebrate. He then proceeded to give the best explanation and defense of Jesus name baptism that I've ever heard - what it really means to take on the name of the Lord. As a result, several more people were baptized that day - but no matter, by Atlanta Bishop's reckoning, we were deadhead non-Pentecostals... how tiresome.

Precisely my point I tried to make in a couple of my earlier posts. I wonder what would have happened at the Jakes meeting if the "beat" suddenly stopped. You'd have a large percentage of those people frozen like statues in some very akward positions, sorta like that game we played as kids called "Freeze!" :slaphappy

Im gonna say this...and then hush because we leave for our cruise today.....and I want to have a good day..

But Atlanta!!!!!!
































YOU are so right on its scary!
:aaa

Sister Murphy...
I am pentecostal to my core to and a General Licensed minister in the United Pentecostal Church. Been in it all my life and will never leave. 5 Genereations of my family have called it home....


BUT


YOU ARE WAY WRONG in the upper part of your post!
WAY WAY WAY WRONG!

Isn't that funny? I think she's "right on".


That's from someone who knew Pentecost as a teen, was in the world for 20 years and then returned to see the effects that music has had on the movement. I think the music is head and shoulders above anything going and even use it as an attractant to my friends. But, that doesn't mean it's right. I should be telling them to come to my church to be healed and delivered, not to be rocked. Yet, I still do because the supernatural is not being manifested nearly enough to be an attractant. I am praying that we (I) seek that and not the beat. For in the supernatural is where God is, not in the music.

Too bad people don't step back and take a look at some of our services to see how music driven they are. If it weren't for the music, the place would be DEAD! Too bad we don't look to the One who is LIFE to energize our services as much as your (and my) grand- and great grandparents probably did.

I challenge you to take a seat off the dance floor one Sunday night at POA. I've been there, so I know what I speak of. Just try it.....with an open mind and after prayer.

Careful there Buddy...thats my home church....
WHEN YOU are baptizing over 800 every year and you have to remodel and build just to accomodate the crowd...then you say what you want..until then you might want to hush....

Just a word for you....Thousand have been delivered on that "dance floor", thousands have received the Holy Ghost on the "dance floor", thousands have repented of their sins on that "dance floor", thousands of marriages have been healed on that "dance floor", 24 hour prayer has gone on there for over 30 years on that "dance floor".

You might want to think about what you post before you talk about the "dance floor" at the POA!

Math was not my best subject but let me see if I can get this together
800 baptized a year times 10 is 8000? Now how many do they have?
Times 20 is 16000???? Then plus all those folks they scavenger off every church is 50 miles where did you put them?

I used the POA because I know that's where you attend. If you attended POM (Monroe), I would have used that one. I would have used whatever church you attended.

Hey, friend, we have a dance floor at our church, too. I'm not so blind to not admit it. We also baptize people and see them filled with the Holy Ghost. I'm not knocking the POA church or leadership. I'm simply asking you to take a step back sometimes and see what's missing and what's trying to take its place.

I did not mean to offend you. I LOVE the POA. I pray for Bro. Mangun regularly these days. I sent an alcoholic friend there, who is now seriously on fire for God -- 1 year + in the Grace house -- and who's mother (I work with) subsequently went there and was baptized (the night I was there) and then received the Holy Ghost on that dance floor about 2 months later. I think Bro. John Russell is DA' BOMB DIGGITTY!! (He'd know me by name)

I'm just being honest about the music in Pentecost and what I see has changed since I was in the world.

Ouch... I have a relative who pastors a small apostolic church about 20 miles from POA, so I understand what you're saying. You still have to respect and appreciate the Manguns for the impact they've had on central LA.

Oh mighty math wizard.....do YOU keep everyone that you baptize??

And as to the scavenger comment, you need to repent.
Just when I think you are a pretty good dude...you say something stupid!

That church is a family magnet!
I know...my wifes DAD stopped pastoring when she was 13 just to take them to the POA so she couls be around more than little churches...TO this day she will tell you that had he not done that...she would probably not be in church today.

C.Mon Epely....Please tell me that you are not even going to attempt to try to validate your opinion of the likes of GA and Vesta Mangun. That church was built on more prayer and fsating than ANY of its kind......YOU know why they have the biggest crowd in the UPCI?....The reap what they have sown...

Folks come, feel God..get baptized, HG...etc.... But guess what...the power of the human will steps into play....they stay or they leave....Is that the fault of the POA or the Manguns? NO WAY...they are there doing what the church is supposed to be doing.....IF they stay or if they go....is a matter of human will and dedication.

Thanks for saying that Bro...

Sounds like they lose way more than they keep.

Seems that way. Of course when they lose more than they keep it is because of people's decisions and not because of anything the church does; but, when others lose more than they keep, it is because the church doesn't know how to keep people. :tiphat





BTW, people do come and go mostly based on their own will and desire, IMO.

Right is right... there are rank sinners in Alex who love the Manguns dearly. Mickey, especially, has earned a tremendous amount of goodwill for her service to the community.

Edited to avoid controversy with you.