Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Look!!!!!

They are printing it so it must be right!


UN says greenhouse gases reach record high in 2008

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=169&sid=8776023

Then there is....

Warming's impacts sped up, worsened since Kyoto

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=169&sid=8766065

This struck me as funny following the release last week of the report of files being stolen saying otherwise!

Looks like to me that they are trying to play damage control.



:thumbsup

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I am reading today about the Cap and Trade bill..


As a side note, did you know that if the Cap and Trade passes, you will have to have a License to sell your house?

You will have to retrofit with many thousands of dollars spent to get the house to a level required by federal law.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

You got a link to that? Is that only in the US?

Down here we just have to pay the local mafia and cut him a percentage!


M

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Must stink to be you!




:thumbsup

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I too wondered about the timing of these reports.

However, the fact concerning the levels of CO2 in the air are just that, facts. We've been pumping multiple millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere for some time.

And it is a fact that the glaciers of Europe are "shrinking." I rewad a news report last year of how a forest that had been buried under ice since the 100's was uncovered due to the retreat of the glacier.

That fact of course begs the questions, "Was the climate "bad" in the 1100's? And if not, then why is it "bad" today?"

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Alex Jones is probably not the best source of information. He was the one who claimed Bush and Giuliani brought down the WTC Towers.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

What I would love to see is the percentages (plus actual amounts) of the greenhouse gases that are a direct result of man- induced gases, plus volcanic and sun activity induced gases.

What we have a a growing number of climate scientists who are beginning to tell it like it really is - the earth is in another warming trend - and there is nothing materially that we can do about it! While man is contributing to the greenhouse effect it is almost like ****** in the ocean, not too many will every notice the added chemicals in the water, compared to the earth's sea floor venting or the decaying matter from sea creatures and plants. Even so, we humans are in the process of killing the oceans.

When the oceans really start to go - fast - look for the events of Revelation to take place, and with a vengeance.

God's time table is still on track (on time), and everything He has purposed will be accomplished with or without our acknowledgment, acceptance or support. So, let us be about our father's business while it is still day, for the night is almost upon us.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I checked that out for myself once recently. Here's my methodology:

I took the amount of CO2 that is released in a large volcanic eruption - I used Mount Pinatubo eruption in 1992, because it was said to have been the largest eruption in recent years. I took the largest figure in the estimates given, just to be "conservative" about the effects of human versus natural activity.

I then took the amount of CO2 being released through "human activity" - and I used the lowest number from these estimates.

What I came up with is as follows: Annual worldwide human activity (cars, electrical power generation, etc.) produces as much CO2 (carbon dioxide) as about 200 Mount Pinatubo eruptions (I think the number was 214).

So, to have a natural activity that would produce the equivalent amounts of CO2 we would need to have 200 Mount Pinatubo eruptions EVERY YEAR. We are clearly pumping out a lot of CO2.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

The thing about human versus natural activity is what gets me. If there were 200 Mount Pinatubo eruptions in the coming year and the Philippines, Japan and much of Eastern China fell off into the sea - that would be "okay" because it's "natural."

1 Corinthians 15:47 (a). "Man" (and the goils!) is a natural part of this planet. What human beings do, is by definition "natural" - unless you're Benny Hinn and can float around in the air.

But the rest of us are a part of this planet and a vital part of the web of life here. It's wrong to say that human activity is some how inherently "evil" the way the environmental wackos do.

Besides, all of that carbon used to be up here and was a part of living organisms. Plants "breathe" CO2. In earlier ages of the earth the CO2 levels were a lot higher than today and there were no frozen ice caps.

There's a "forest" of frozen trees in Greenland of a species that was thought to be extinct - until they were found growing in isolated parts of tropical China. And the wood still burns though it's a million years old. And being "just" a million years old, it's not like plate tectonics carried Greenland from the tropics to the far north is such a short period of time, geologically speaking.

Was it "bad" when these forests on Greenland were alive and vibrant? Would it be "bad" if they were to return? IMHO, no! It wouldn't be "bad" - but it would be different. I think the term for this difference is "climate change" and it's been going on long before humans ever started to sully up the place.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Thanks for the info. Do you have the amounts (weight, volume)?

Also, did your studies also include the sun spot/flare effects on the upper atmosphere gas/chemical perturbations, and the ocean floor volcanic venting resulting in a possible increase in ocean temperature and its effects on the interdependent environment, plus the non-absorbed volcanic gas releases from oceanic sources?

Or, if you did not carry your study that far, did you run across a web site or other resource that might contain such data?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Looking for sources of the climate temperature change and their percentage of each source's contribution, CO2 being one of the major drivers, but not necessarily the only one, but a good one to start with.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I'd have to go back to the sources for the amounts. I was just looking at readily available information on the Internet for the numbers.

And, no. The only thing this particular search did, or could do was to evaluate the amount of CO2 ( the most abundant "greenhouse" gas - though hardly the most effective) humans produce and compare that to naturally occuring events.

There are obviously lots of variables that influence the planets temperature. In my opinion, it's a bit of hubris to think that humans could influence such a vast and complex system which involves so many forces that are totally out of our control. We can of course make a mess of things, especially on a local scale. And given that humans are "everywhere" - that can be a really big mess.

But in our climate debate - and we should be having a debate, not having rigged numbers thrown around - the human production of CO2 gas is considerable. However, since CO2 is about the "weakest" greenhouse gas, what real effect does this have; especially compared the many other factors that you cite?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

There is a great deal of information at the following sites:

ICECAP:
http://icecap.us/index.php
Check out the Climatge Library, it is a searchable database that has some awesome information that is very much science driven and not just op-ed stuff.

Climate Audit
http://www.climateaudit.org/
This is the blog of one of the formost scientists on the Skeptics side. The guy that runs it (Steve McIntyer) is the guy who "broke the Hockeystick"


This is a great blog spot with lots of links and some great information
http://climatedepot.com/


This is Anthony Watts blog. He is a meterologist and his site is very informative and very searchable. (great information on Ocean Acidification)


http://wattsupwiththat.com/

Powerlineblog is also a great source. this is a link to an article that outlines the CRU hacking....

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../11/025011.php


If you are looking for hard science, this post here is one of the best. It is by Lord Moncton and it outlines the science very nicely. It also includes a rebuttle by a AGW supporter, with Moncktons replies to that. very long and very interesting.

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...te_at_last.pdf


Here is another great blog spot with good "hard science"

http://hallofrecord.blogspot.com/200...car-study.html


This is one of my favorites. It is not direct AGW skeptic stuff but it is the best source of information on hurricanes on a global scale and the detail in this science is crazy good at refuting the AGW-Hurricane link. Ryan Maue is a scientist and hurricane researcher at Florida State and is very highly respected in his field.
http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/


Hope that helps. there is a lot more out there. I will look for a couple of papers that I really think are important and post links.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

This is one of the best "Hard Science" papers that is put into "laymans terms:"

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Thanks Ferd! I'll go off and do some surfing.:thumbsup

pelathais - you got it kid!

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

This is a fantastic paper that reconstructs global temerature record without tree ring proxies. it goes back 2000 years.

This paper is important on 2 levels, first, Mann, Jones, Briffa et all use tree ring proxies to recreate historical temperature records that elminate the MWP and create the "Hockey Stick"

Second, this record proves global Warming in the Mideavil period.

http://www.ncasi.org/publications/Detail.aspx?id=3025

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

And an energy crisis hit the world in the 70's.... not.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

This is also some very important information regarding the Medieval Warming Period.

It connects the MWP to Peru and thus goes some distance to disproving the "hockey stick's" acertion that the MWP was a Eurpoean event and not global.

**edit** This paper is extremely important for one over riding reason. It shows that Maize was grown during the MWP above 3300 meters. That owerver ended during a cooling period in the late 16 century and has only in the last few years been reproducable. In other words, the current warming is just now approaching a level that existed for about 400 years starting around 1200 BC.
Quote:
For instance, the pollen in the cores says that there was maize being grown under the Incas around the lake at 3,300ms a.s.l. Until recently the upper level for maize around the Urubamba valley was 3,000-3,100ms. In the past few years the maize level has moved up and today there is maize being grown again above Marcacocha.



WUWT blog about the paper
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/0...u-picchu-inca/

copy of the paper
http://www.clim-past-discuss.net/5/7...5-771-2009.pdf

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Yup and the MWP was followed by the LIA. (Little Ice Age)

I could deal with a Little Ice Age anytime now. Let it snow let it snow let it snow.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

This graph really gives the essence of the debate. The first is the Hockey Stick by Michael Mann. MM is part of the group who are pushing the IPCC reports that the world governments are using to say Global Warming is man made (Anthropogenic Global Warming or AGW).

The second reconstruction is the historic understanding of temperature for the last 1200 years. This shows 3 important things.

First, the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) lasted for about 500 years and was global,

Second, there was a period called the Little Ice Age LIA that followed and that also corresponded with the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum. These are episodes of low Sun Spot activity.

Third, the earth is now warming again, however it is not as warm now as it was in the MWP, nor is this warming appreciably different from the previous warming period.

Based on these 3 simple facts, AGW can either be proven (by disproving the second graph) or AGW can be disproved (by proving the second graph.)

ALL of Climate Change science as it relates to AGW, boils down to proving or disproving that the current warming period is materially different from the MWP in a way that shows that it is now 1. Hotter. 2. Warmed faster. 3. Have a different source that the previous warming/cooling periods.

What we know about the 20th century is that it reversed the Little Ice Age. We also know that the LIA happened during low sunspot activity and we know that the 20th century was a period of extremely high sun spot activity.

We also know from the recently hacked emails from Hadley CRU, that the major players in the IPCC reporting (International Panel on Climate Change) work working very hard to disprove the MWP graph, and were hiding and manipulating data to do so.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

That's the rub - just how much does CO2 contribute to "warming?" How much does it prevent "cooling?" It all part of a complex series of not just INTERRELATED mechanisms - but INTERACTING mechanisms.

A volcano, for example, might belch out huge quantities of CO2 and contribute to global warming. However the dust from a large eruption will also block out solar radiation and on balance cause global cooling.

It's not a zero sum game. And it is something we need to have a discussion about, but by placing monetary incentives into the pockets of advocates for one view or the other, we will inevitably have folks hiding emails and sabotaging others with rival thoughts.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Remember those Currier and Ives paintings showing people ice skating on the Thames River? Or the Hans Christian Anderson stories about ice skating on the canals in Holland?

Those themes were all drawn up from human experiences near the close of the Little Ice Age.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I have been gripping for the last week because of temperatures in the 60's here.. I want my winter and I want it NOW!

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Global warming is indeed happening.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

yup al gore said so, after all, would the inventor of the internet steer us wrong?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

would you say it is Anthropogenic?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

It is written,

Revelation 16:8 (KJV)
{16:8} And the fourth angel poured out his vial
upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men
with fire. {16:9} And men were scorched with great heat,
and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over
these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

I believe that global warming is primarily due to natural cycles of the planet. However, I believe that man's greed, degradation, and exploitation of resources exacerbates the issue. Ultimately, we might be reading a prophecy of this very thing that will eventually come upon our world.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

didnt that happen in 70AD?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

The book of Revelation is multifaceted, dynamic, and multidimensional. That is the nature of prophecy. For example a prophetic utterance might go forth and apply to many different peoples lives in many different ways in any given moment in time, a period of time, or series of moments in time.

For those of the first century the Revelation spoke directly to them and the circumstances unfolding within their generation (Preterism). For those living during the dark ages of the church the shadows of prophecy loom historically as the spirit of antichrist is seen in the Roman Catholic Church (historicism). Within the very writ of the Revelation we see spiritual principles and depictions that are spiritually relevant to all believers in every age in any location (Spiritual). Yet still the Revelation serves to possibly unfold more horrendous events yet to unfold in the future culminating in what is often referred to as the Armageddon.

Sadly, one track minds who cannot interpret scripture transdimentionally or in a multifaceted manner are lost to the truths espoused by every eschatological position. Depending on subject matter and historical context any given interpretation may indeed be found bearing truth.

Often those who espouse a position apart from the traditional Futurist interpretation pride themselves for thinking outside of the box. However, they only leap from one box to another. Loose the boxes all together and embrace the truths that pour fourth from the fountain of spiritual insight and revelation that apply to all believers, in all places, in any given context, in any given period or moment in time.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Iwasjoking

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Maybe you were. But it brings up an excellent point. Preterists, while accurately depicting what prophecy meant to those living in the first cenutry, are blind to the reality of the Revelation's shadows that speak just as strongly to the future. Futurists fail to see the relevance of prophetic fulfillment to those living in the first century while rightfully watching for the Revelation's future relevance.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

thisthreadisaboutglobalwarmingandwhyitaintmanmade

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Willing to wager your immortal soul before God and man here on this thread on the notion that man has nothing to do with it?

My point is that the Word of God describes a time when the sun is given authority to scortch man with great heat. You'll notice that the text doesn't depict it's cause as being strictly geological or coincidental... but rather it is the result of man's sinfulness and refusal to repent. Sins of greed, exploitation, and degradation would be a major factor if man is contributing to the situation. The love of money will drive greedy men to exploit and degrade their own world. Yes, they'd destroy the planet to make a dollar. That's idolatry of the hightest order...and for it they will reap the heat wave their greed has contirbuted to.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

What happened in the 1200's (see Fernando's chart) that caused the Almighty Being to scortch the earth with such intensity? I hear the plumbing was particularly bad.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Isnt there a biblical prohabition to wagering your immortal soul?


I dont tempt God my fine brother......


now back to the question. do you believe that global warming is a man made thing? in terms of the current climate?

do you believe that CO2 in particular is causing the earth to warm?

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

If this is the time when the sun is scorching the earth...then why the widespread reports every year recently that it was COOLER than normal?

Its a hoax folks. The climate is in transition. It is getting warmer in some areas, but cooler in others. Big deal. I remember having tons of snow in the winters here in central Ohio. Now...we get almost none until February. However, there are places that didn't used to get much snow who now get loads of it.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

I believe that climate change (if not the wrath of God) is primarily natural in origin. Climates do change naturally. However, I also believe that the earth has a delicate natural balance. I think climate change is happening more drastically than in past climate shifts. This is most evident in the polar regions and other regions where the balance in the local environment is more sensitive. While man's CO2 emissions aren't significant in comparison to natural phenomena, man's CO2 emissions may prove to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I remember hearing about a 400 year old Redwood that was very very tall. Apparently some rot had set in and it was dying. One day it fell. It didn't fall from strong winds, it wasn't hit by lightening. It would appear that perhaps it had become so weakened that under it's emense weight a point of critical balance was reached. All it may have taken was a tiny sparrow gentley landing on a Northern branch to bring the tree crashing down.

I think that the earth's environment may be like this to some degree. Man's impact may be miniscule when compared to nautral geological events such as volcanos etc... but it may be the tiny sparrow that sets the entire system off balance.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Global Warming doesn't necessarily mean universal warming around the globe. It means that there are measured temperature increases in areas significant enough to change weather patterns faster and more drastically than what has been observed in geological history. So yes, as weather patterns change to accomodate warm fronts over the oceans you'll see some areas getting snow and colder temperatures than in the past while others indeed do get warmer.

Re: Global Warming is Happening!!!!
 

Of course global warming is caused by you ugly americans!:thumbsup Remember when you had to get your ac freon changed from R12 to R22? It was all the freon escaping from your american cars that caused the hole in the ozone to get bigger thus releasing all the cool air.

Supposedly changing your AC freon was supposed to help. Did it? Are you feeling cooler now?

Did you see that article from that President of a former soviet state that called the environmental movement to commnunism. It is all about the control of people.

I will try to find the link but he was on a talk show last year.