Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I have seen a number of pastors and their wives implement the position of the armour bear. These people stand guard for them, run errands, pray for them, provide a spiritual barrier between them and the devils tactics sent from outsiders, prepare meals and drinks, wipe sweat, pack luggages for trips etc.

Is this position biblical and necessary? What does the scripture say about this? Or do we see this as an "errand boy/girl for the pastor?

Re: Armour Bear vs Flunky
 

sad day in church when the ministry gets so full of themselves they gotta have servants. "armor Bearer" hah, that is a pretty good con.

Re: Armour Bear vs Flunky
 

I think you mean bearer - I'll make the change for you.

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Yes, thanks for making the change.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Black churches use these A LOT!!

There are a few other churches in my area that do too that aren't COGIC.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

One cannot be both servant and master at the same time.

In too many churches, the servant has become the master. The 'servant of all' has become the one 'served by all'. Do not be envious of them, for they have already received their reward. Rather, see to the sheep.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I don't mind if someone wants to "cover" their minister in prayer privately, but to follow them around with water bottles and carry their Bible is a bit too much for me.

I accompanied a friend that spoke at a ladies conference and they did this. Drove me nuts because they did it for me too since I was with her. I never could find my "stuff" - - they'd get it and take it away. It made me nervous....lol!

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I don't think it is a matter of being envious. I see it as unecessary use and taking advantage of others. I am concerned that people are being used and are being taken advantage of.

Yes, it is popular in the African American churches, Renda.

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And maybe even pre-chew their food?

Or how about physically protecting their master and fighting off any attacker kung fu style, like any good lackey of SPECTER would?

Honestly the whole thing is disgusting -and not even thinking about the pre-chewing thing.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

That is going way too far.

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Apparently, they want to do it, so I'm not sure I see it as being "taken advantage of" because I'm sure they will be blessed for having a servant's heart.

I do, however, feel it relays an air of arrogance and is unneeded. No one is too good to carry their own Bible and water bottle.

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Done right, it could be good. I don't see it being done right in the majority of cases, though. A pastor in my youth started this, but for some reason it never really got off the ground.

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I am having a difficult time with this concept. Partly disgust for the "master" and even a bit more for the sheepish flock who would go along with it.

I can see ONE advantage though: The master could instruct his "shield bearer" to ambush him at random times in order for the master to hone his combat skills. I know of a shield bearer who spent all afternoon in a refrigerator laying in wait for the master to come home and open it. A most diabolical ploy!

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It is a bit arrogant and I think there are people who feel it is an honor to do this.

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Hopefully, they won't take it this far:

1 Samuel 31:5 (New International Version)
5 When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I have heard it preached... and was part of a church for several years that used it to a wild degree. What I saw: a tired and frustrated pastor, a church full of distrust, pride, bragging, and backbiting, and a few disillusioned people who wondered where God was in any of it.

Sorry, just what I've seen. I pray it isn't that way everywhere, but it can be taken way too far. I hope I've only seen it taken to it's farthest extreme.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree that it could be misused, and I'm not really even trying to defend the practice in general. However, if a pastor really has the heart of a servant, and he wants his "flunkies" as someone so eloquently called them to develop the same, then he could train them that way.

As I said, does it work that way most of the time? Probably not. But it can.

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Unbiblical and presumptuous. The Pastor is not a king

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Praying for the man is not a position. We are told to pray for one another. Sounds like a Frat house with pledges

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They want to do it because they wrongly think this is God's will. Same guile is used to trick millions to give their money to TV evangelists

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If done right the pastor should pick a saint and do it for that saint. He is the servant after all.....

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Prax, that is what makes it really sad. We will fall for almost anything because the pastor says it should be done. The pastor should be ready to assist the people instead of having the men at the door filter the traffic. Just plain arrogant.

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It's funny...and they call us a cult because we deny the Trinity but to have people hand over their brains like that to one man sounds more like a religious cult than anything

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Altar boys.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

some churches have pastoral care teams. I've seen them walk to the platform carrying stuff for the pastor. quite interesting many times the team is women.

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Yup, that is exactly the relationship I am referring to. :)

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That's new to me. My Pastor has Armor Bearers... We do not run errands, but rather teach/preach sermons and give exhortations.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I could see having an administrative assistant if you're truly burdened - or even for a pastor or other leader who may be disabled or partially disabled.

Look at Batman and Alfred. They made that work without an undue loss of dignity for the long suffering Alfred. In fact, whenever it came down to it, Alfred was the one who usually saved the day.

Problems arise when many folks merely think they're Batman and attempt to engage their congregations and society in general in an overbearing and lawless fashion.

... Plus this new fad of attempting to label everything with some hokey biblical eisegesis term like ... "armor bearer," "Apostle" or even "Apostolic" ...

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Do you carry weapons?

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Are you being serious? there is no right way to do this.

Any minister that is allowing this to be done to him / for him ought to slapped in the face till he comes to his senses.

I have heard of this practice before and have always thought that it was shameful.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

I dunno, FAL. In the manner in which it has been described so far, I agree it's shameful.

But what if you have an elderly pastor, say, who is in high demand as a national and conference speaker, he has difficulty carrying luggage and needs an extra bit of help updating his blog and doing other church communications related work?

If "it's done right" - that is, if a talented assistant is paid a decent salary and given the respect they deserve - that they've earned! - then I don't see a problem.

I knew one pastor who had eyesight problems and always seemed to have some one at his arm to help him find his way into and out of large meeting halls. The problem he ran into was that though he seemed to appreciate the help, he was also generally something of a grouch at other times so he cycled through his informal "armor bearers" with some rapidity.

"Done right" is an ambiguous phrase. Maybe we should say - "Done with a sense of honor and mutual respect..." and if a full or even part time position - "Done with reasonable and adequate compensation."

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

What, no sedan chair?

http://www.reformation.org/en-papal-sedan-chair.jpg

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Train them to carry his Bible and water bottle?!

Give me a break.

:vomit

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Yes.

:ursofunny

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This is basically what I had in mind - too bad people didn't see that. I was at work and couldn't give a more detailed response.

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No, seriously... After the last spate of church shootings I have heard of churches that have off duty police and others carry their weapons to church to serve as "armor bearers" to protect the people gathered there.

The church in Colorado Spgs. where that nut went around and killed a couple of kids in the parking lot already had such a program in place. It was one of the "armor bearers" that put the guy down before he could shoot anyone inside the church.

Re: Armor Bearer vs Flunky
 

Well in that case... no.

We did have the city police chief come to our church and walk us through some senarios... and how we should act.

But no one at our church has a concealed weapons license.

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Agreed Pel. But why then call it an armour bearer? Call the person what he is, an assistant.

The title "armour bearer" is right up there with "holy magic hair" as something that gives off the wrong impression.

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A paid assistant is a much different thing than an armor bearer in the sense that it is used in many places today.

Like I said, I hope that what I've seen is worse than what transpires in most places.

Same church did supposedly do conceal and carry. Scary, and this is why. A woman told me she was so glad the men were carrying guns to church. When my reaction was less than positive, she told me that they were all well trained to handle weapons. I asked why she thought they were, or how she knew. She laughed and told me one had dropped his ammo running the aisles. Wait... she had just said this guy was well trained? :uhoh I think I'd rather take my chances with the criminals...