Selling Out to Cash In.... Ex-Apostolics...
 

It disturbs me when I see ex-apostolics on Televsion hawking money for the propagation of False Doctrine....

When I see ex-apostolic singers who turn their back on truth and claim anointing and propagate false doctrine...

Seems like they "sold out" to Cash in...

Claiming that their new found wealth & popularity is a sign of God's Blessings....

What think Ye??

I weep when this happens......30 pieces of silver...30 shekels of shame..

I do not think that the money part of the prosperity doctrine is what all are leading too. Althought with larger churches come larger tithe checks. I think that to say "cashing in" is a little of a stretch. Some have cashed in referring to money. Some have cashed in with a more effective ministries, better programs, etc. Some have gone crazy and left God altogether. Some have stepped out from under the crazy-con-ideology that some of the UPC has and been able to reach better, further and been more affective.

But keep in mind that the bible says, Deuteronomy 8:18
But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Remember that wealth is not always money, but sometimes it is.

Methinks this thread will offend some here.....

I think that is silly to discount everyone that left and just happen to gain wealth as selling out. There are alot of people that are still in the UPC that point their finger and say the ones that left have "soldout." But those are opinions. Opinions are not truths.

little is said of the cross, denying yourself, being beat with rods, being shipwrecked, naked, hungry...ever weary...

I am not in the UPCI and neither am I saying people who leave the UPCI are selling out...
I personally am saying a lot of glamour and promises some of these prosperity preachers make is to raise more money...and more money and more money...

I am sure there are sincere people also preaching.

Nashville and TBN want all the contributers to sacrifice for the sake of prosperity....

Not much cross bearing mentioned by the media type minitries.....

That is ....

They want you to carry their cross......

Sister, I did not mean to make it seem as if I were accusing you of doing this. I was using your quote to build off of. But my point was that there are alot of people out there that left the UCPI and others that have not become millionaires. Some are the same people now that they were when they left. BUT the fact is that some of the churches have grown in number. Thus meaning more tithe, higher salaies, etc.

Most of them I have seen on TBN and such are trying to raise money for the station not for their bill fold or money clip. There are some. But also remember God does bless people to become wealthy and some of these people try and help others to reach that kind of freedom. I am not happy with it as a doctrine, but a blessing, yes it is. I think that there is some of them that are greedy and want money, money, money. But I would not say that it is a majority.

Why is it when it comes to prosperity liberal's always quote the Old testament but when it comes to standards... they critisize Conservatives for the same???

I see no problem in asking people if they want to partner "my" ministry then here is how. I think that there is a thin line here though. Giving the ability to become a partner is ok, but promising blessings.....gotta be careful. There are people that I know has sewn seed into ministries and God bless them will a big cash flow. But I know people that give and give and barely make ends meet. God will put money into peoples hands to help the kingdom. If the people choose not to sew it back...well then there is the problem.

The lake of fire awaits that deceitful poison spitting tongue, be assured.

Never got a pm from you ever.. bro..

Check your facts.. before you blow your nose...

Money Cometh... Sounds like "Let's all praise Money" ..

Bump for whoever***

:lol

Love of money is the root of all evil ... it happens in the Apostolic church ... out of it ... with dyed in the wool Apostolics ... and ex-Apostolics ...

We know the stories of money-hungry self-professed Christians on both sides ....

I cant swallow prosperity preaching at all ... but in happens in Apostolic churches also ... I've heard it w/ my own ears .....

As for the charge against singers and musicians that leave .... to cash in ... yes there are some that have seeing a broader cash revenue ... but again ... I've seen Apostolics that will hawk their CD's at a prayer service ....

One of the problems that the Apostolic church has had is that some pastors do not:

1. Understand the exorbitant costs it takes to produce a quality CD recording ... it's in the thousands of dollars ....

They then expect this singer or musician to sell their CD' to a small insular market. Some shun those that minister at "non-apostolic" venues ....

2. Then you have pastors who literally don't even see it as a ministry on the par w/ preaching or teaching and so it's marginalized ..... Many pastors till this day think it's crazy to have salaried musicians .... and those that do are often grossly underpaid based on the hours they put in ....

Things we need to consider ...

This isn't about hawking for money or having money but Ex-Apostolics raising money for themselves or some ministry to propagate False Doctrine??

It's about perspective ... RevRandy ... once again .... are there blatant example of Christian charlatans ... of course .....

but we often can't understand why a preacher or singer has left our ranks and so we often chalk it up to ... "well ... they're just compromisers who after money".

I am a little confused as to what you mean by "Nashville" here. Can you claify?

The libs know how to "rightly divide" the word

Yes they do. I'm agreeing since you seem to be making an assertion sans a question mark.

No but it is one aspect of the triangle I hate to see...

It is suspect... but it is their choice...and we have our own issues.. but that being said... Truth is STILL truth... Doctrine is STILL Doctrine..

They have given up that in my opinion when they are raising money for a false hope that lulls folks into thinking their saved....

I think that you are fishing here. I am more a lib than a con, but I do not critisize cons for reading the OT when referring to standards. I do think that it is a out of context thing when people talk about standards. Although I do follow most of them. The church today can not be a church with out the older generations no more than the Bible can be the word of God without the OT.

I just think that the Cons, as a majority, are trying to box the Libs in here. I think that most of the Cons are trying to hard to defend the standards thing. Some would say the Libs are doing the same for the money thing. Maybe. But ALL the Cons get their shorts, I mean pants in a wad when some tells them that they are taking scripture out of context about the dress code. I hate the word standards cause dress code is not standards. Standards is a life style to live by. Not a set of "do not's" but of "you can's." You can obstain from premarital sex, drugs, etc.

Holiness does not equal standards. Standards, not dress code, help to protect your holiness. A dress code is ok for the modesty thing. The Cons have taken it beyond modesty. They have made it heaven or hell and not modest and immodest. Women can be more modest or as modest in pants than a skirt. This not a standards thread, but the Cons always make things about "defending" the look of a person. When the intent is the immoral part.

Now, that's a good question.

Wasn't really attacking you personally but it seems to prevail among charismatics... and some liberal leaning folks...

I don't have a problem defending Biblical Standards set forth in the Word...

Is doctrine still doctrine ... truth still truth when you have SOME Apostolic pastors bilking their saints EVERY SUNDAY ....???

There's a few ... one recently in Ohio ... that has allegedly stolen thousands of dollars ....

RKentSmith,

Please answer my question from the last page.

I am not saying we don't have our own snake oil salesmen..Dan..

But I do think it sad.. When talented Folks leave the Biblical Doctrine of Oneness, Repentence, Baptism in Jesus Name and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues.. to promote False Doctrine which doesn't save anyone...

CC1.. I think he is alluding to Country Music... and Money...

Wrong forum.

I am sure you don't have a problem defending them. You should have to defend them. You should follow them if you believe them and those that don't see or believe them should not be damned for not seeing it. I have been in the Apostolic faith for 20+ yrs and I have followed standards to be in the choir. That was a sacrifice I gave. I did not think that it was wrong then and now to wear shorts and rings. But sure there is to be limit. No over board stuff, but I do not think God has set forth things to be as tight as some of the Cons teach.

I do not think the Cons want to be controling by preaching dress codes, but it does end that way. On the other hand the Libs can not discount living right. I do not think that a dress code makes you or anyone more holy, but there is tact that needs to be used. No halter tops in public, but a short sleeve shirt...modest shorts, slacks, etc.

But this is about prosperity doctrine not the hem lengths.

Is this then a doctrinal thread or an economical thread ???

... because I think a snake oil salesman will adopt ANY DOCTRINE .... to make a buck ... I've seen one ultracon who used the PASTOR IS NEVER WRONG DOCTRINE ... to walk away w/ close a million dollars after selling the church property ... leaving his saints out in the "cold" .....

Since you are a Oneness Apostolic do you feel it's okay Apostolic folks to go let's say TBN and raise money to Propagate the Trinitarian Doctrine?

btw... I am not Ultra-Conservative...

I was trying to figure out how the city of Nashville got lumped in there with TBN.

There are many exUPCer's / exApostolics who have not gone that road of the "Prosperity Message". My church and pastor are one of them.

The ones that do go that route tend to get a lot of attention because of their antics. I have related how I stumbled across a Christian TV telethon being hosted by a former UPC pastor a couple of years ago and how shameful his appeal to the elderly and poor was. I was so full of rightous indignation I was almost shaking and had trouble going to sleep that night. That man is going to answer to God for the perversion of the Gospel I witnessed him put forth that night. It was as if Christianity was a get rich scheme rather than the restoration of creation to the Creator.

See Rksmith......most of us exer's HERE feel this way.

I believe anyone who abuses his or her authority in the Kingdom will face the judgement of God...

This thread is about Ex-Apostolics on Television raising money for or from Trinitarian Means...

And I've acknowledged this fact .... while of course there are problems with bias and perspective ... and of course the issue of looking at the problem at it's root.

This is precisely my point... they have sold the Truth... to cash in for personal gain... or to promote False Doctrine...

they have lowered themselves to this level..and it's sad... no matter how wealthy they are or will become..

Root??

Dan.. Is everybody that leaves the UPC or Apostolic fellowship a Victim?